I'm through with all of the DHS bull****, but I'm still in fear that they could come back. Since I thought I had nothing to fear the first time since I never did anything wrong, and my kid was stolen, I fear having a knock at my door or a business card left asking me to call.
Rather than try and fight a losing battle, I'd rather take the risk of running with my kids. Has anyone done this, thought of doing this or know someone who did? If so, can you give any suggestions on what to do to "disappear?"
Has anyone taken the kids and ran?????
Moderators: family_man, LindaJM
-
Enchanted*Forester
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:27 am
- Location: Somewhere cold!
Has anyone taken the kids and ran?????
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away...
.
I think it depends on the legal status of your case.
Also the "legal custody" status of the child.
The way CPS databases are shared is variable, from what I can see. It varies from state to state and among localities.
As an example, if a married couple has joint custody of their children and have not been to court for separation, divorce or custody matters, then one parent can take off and move to another state. But if there is a court-ordered custody arrangement and court-ordered visitation, then one parent can't move to another state with a child without clearing it with the other parent, lawyers and court.
Another example, until recently New York allowed criminals to become foster parents because they only checked records in NY state. In the news this week Michigan governor is signing laws to include criminal checks on foster parent applicants. In other localities they are trying to keep criminal records current on foster parents.
In the case of the Florida girl who went missing, the mother picked up the daughter from the foster home, saying the Agency closed the case and she could go home. The mother took the child out-of-state. The foster parents reported it to the foster care agency, but the foster agency and the child protection agency couldn't get a police report for 4 months because the mother had "legal custody" of the child.
But another mother, whose case was on Dr. Phil, took her child from the family who was going to adopt the child and went to Canada. The mother changed her mind about the adoption and the adoption legal status was up in the air. It was reported that technically the mother still had "legal custody" of the child and travelled under her own name. Yet a kidnapping charge was in place and the mother went to jail. This was not a child welfare case.
In Virginia Beach, a mother was under a safety plan and moved to an adjacent locality to be with family in order to comply with keeping the children safe. She had grown up in the child protection system and wanted to keep her children out of the system. She homeschooled the children and didn't vaccinate them. The police arrested her for "absconding" even though there was no court order saying she couldn't move. She complied with all services but couldn't get her children back until after it went to the appeals court.
Some service plans state that a parent must keep in contact with the agency and let them know if they move. But Dazee on this forum stated that contacting the agency after the case was supposed to be closed was not a good idea based on their experience. That just led to more trouble. She said, Just move.
.
I think it depends on the legal status of your case.
Also the "legal custody" status of the child.
The way CPS databases are shared is variable, from what I can see. It varies from state to state and among localities.
As an example, if a married couple has joint custody of their children and have not been to court for separation, divorce or custody matters, then one parent can take off and move to another state. But if there is a court-ordered custody arrangement and court-ordered visitation, then one parent can't move to another state with a child without clearing it with the other parent, lawyers and court.
Another example, until recently New York allowed criminals to become foster parents because they only checked records in NY state. In the news this week Michigan governor is signing laws to include criminal checks on foster parent applicants. In other localities they are trying to keep criminal records current on foster parents.
In the case of the Florida girl who went missing, the mother picked up the daughter from the foster home, saying the Agency closed the case and she could go home. The mother took the child out-of-state. The foster parents reported it to the foster care agency, but the foster agency and the child protection agency couldn't get a police report for 4 months because the mother had "legal custody" of the child.
But another mother, whose case was on Dr. Phil, took her child from the family who was going to adopt the child and went to Canada. The mother changed her mind about the adoption and the adoption legal status was up in the air. It was reported that technically the mother still had "legal custody" of the child and travelled under her own name. Yet a kidnapping charge was in place and the mother went to jail. This was not a child welfare case.
In Virginia Beach, a mother was under a safety plan and moved to an adjacent locality to be with family in order to comply with keeping the children safe. She had grown up in the child protection system and wanted to keep her children out of the system. She homeschooled the children and didn't vaccinate them. The police arrested her for "absconding" even though there was no court order saying she couldn't move. She complied with all services but couldn't get her children back until after it went to the appeals court.
Some service plans state that a parent must keep in contact with the agency and let them know if they move. But Dazee on this forum stated that contacting the agency after the case was supposed to be closed was not a good idea based on their experience. That just led to more trouble. She said, Just move.
.
-
Enchanted*Forester
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:27 am
- Location: Somewhere cold!
My case is closed
There is no open case against me. I'm still married to my children's father. I have told him that if DHS came calling that I wouldn't stick around to find out why; I'd just leave with the kids and he might never see us again.
He didn't like it, but understands. I just wondered if there is a list of things I can do to "disappear." I may be overreacting, but I am living with the knowledge that the innocent don't have rights and aren't treated fairly. I honestly don't think I could live through what I went through again.
I'd be doing it for the safety of the kids. Bouncing around to 3 foster homes while the court made us out to be evil for having an ADHD child with severe behavioral issues is no life for a child.
I just wanted to see if others have the same fears.
Thanks for the info!
He didn't like it, but understands. I just wondered if there is a list of things I can do to "disappear." I may be overreacting, but I am living with the knowledge that the innocent don't have rights and aren't treated fairly. I honestly don't think I could live through what I went through again.
I'd be doing it for the safety of the kids. Bouncing around to 3 foster homes while the court made us out to be evil for having an ADHD child with severe behavioral issues is no life for a child.
I just wanted to see if others have the same fears.
Thanks for the info!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away...
running isnt really an option. They will find you. If they are really that determined to take your children from you, they will not stop until they have done so.
When my case first started I did some reasearch on people who ran. I considered doing it as well. My childrens father is a naturalized citizen in the U.S. His father is from Greece and his mother is Canadian. He is by birth Candaian. At any point my children can go to either country, as can their father, and claim citizenship. Since they are underage, I can take them to either and claim that citizenship on their behalf and be allowed to stay in either country.
Canada works with the U.S. and if notified will cooperate with the U.S. court system. I did not look into Greece. But because of treaties, they too will work with the U.S. (probably not as organized however). I decided to draw on my inner strength and fight back with everything I had insteed. Granted my children were not taken from me, but I was threatened with it until I retained a lawyer.
I read a case about a young couple that had a TPR and lost rights to their 2 children. The next time she became pregnant they went on the run to keep from losing custody of that baby as well. In another state, the baby was taken from them in the hospital and had a TPR. The next time she became pregnant again, they went on the run again and did a home birth. The first time that child saw a doctor, there was a trace of where they were and that child was removed from them as well. The next time they went to Canda to give birth, thinking they were safe. The child was taken then from them in Canada and relinquished to U.S. authorities. They tried over and over again. I believe it was their 6th or 7th child they did a home birth and stayed away from hospitals. Any time there was a hint that CPS might be onto them, they relocated again. The child they were hiding was a toddler girl and they were still in hiding. at some point they would either have to enroll the child in school, or apply for homeschooling. At which point they would eventually be caught and again the child be taken away. Neither parent was able to work a legit job because using their social would give away where they were. They were essentially fugitives on the run.
The sadest part of this is the fact that parents who do not deserve to have their children taken from them are hunted down relentlessly, yet children who really are abused (and you see it on the news all the time) they are unable to find the family and the child turns up dead somewhere. Its a lovely system thats going on.
In VA they have 90 days to locate the family and do the investigation once they get a call of neglect/abuse. If they are unable to locate the family within that time they are supposed to close the case since they cannot investigate it. When you have school age children, that is not an option, unless you go into extreme hiding and even then you open the door for things like not allowing your child a legal/approved education, medical. Its criminal either way you look at it.
Are you willing to become a fugitive in the end? Are you willing to have them go after your children in the end because you are unable to care for them inside prision walls? Its a catch 22.
Do I still have fears about CPS pushing themselves into our lives again, HELL YES. Everything I do as far as my kids are concerned, I think about that. Jobs, food, clothes, punishments, schooling, illness ...EVERYTHING.
I have one that fakes illness and pain to be able to stay home from school. I still make him go, and every day that I do, I get a call from the school telling me he is in pain and needs to go home. If I tell them hes faking. Im uncaring and neglectful. If I pick him up I get notes from the shcool telling me he has already missed too many days and again uncaring and neglectful for allowing it to happen. At times, I feel like I am up in strings like a marionette and my children are pulling the strings and CPS stands on smiling proudly in triumph.
When my case first started I did some reasearch on people who ran. I considered doing it as well. My childrens father is a naturalized citizen in the U.S. His father is from Greece and his mother is Canadian. He is by birth Candaian. At any point my children can go to either country, as can their father, and claim citizenship. Since they are underage, I can take them to either and claim that citizenship on their behalf and be allowed to stay in either country.
Canada works with the U.S. and if notified will cooperate with the U.S. court system. I did not look into Greece. But because of treaties, they too will work with the U.S. (probably not as organized however). I decided to draw on my inner strength and fight back with everything I had insteed. Granted my children were not taken from me, but I was threatened with it until I retained a lawyer.
I read a case about a young couple that had a TPR and lost rights to their 2 children. The next time she became pregnant they went on the run to keep from losing custody of that baby as well. In another state, the baby was taken from them in the hospital and had a TPR. The next time she became pregnant again, they went on the run again and did a home birth. The first time that child saw a doctor, there was a trace of where they were and that child was removed from them as well. The next time they went to Canda to give birth, thinking they were safe. The child was taken then from them in Canada and relinquished to U.S. authorities. They tried over and over again. I believe it was their 6th or 7th child they did a home birth and stayed away from hospitals. Any time there was a hint that CPS might be onto them, they relocated again. The child they were hiding was a toddler girl and they were still in hiding. at some point they would either have to enroll the child in school, or apply for homeschooling. At which point they would eventually be caught and again the child be taken away. Neither parent was able to work a legit job because using their social would give away where they were. They were essentially fugitives on the run.
The sadest part of this is the fact that parents who do not deserve to have their children taken from them are hunted down relentlessly, yet children who really are abused (and you see it on the news all the time) they are unable to find the family and the child turns up dead somewhere. Its a lovely system thats going on.
In VA they have 90 days to locate the family and do the investigation once they get a call of neglect/abuse. If they are unable to locate the family within that time they are supposed to close the case since they cannot investigate it. When you have school age children, that is not an option, unless you go into extreme hiding and even then you open the door for things like not allowing your child a legal/approved education, medical. Its criminal either way you look at it.
Are you willing to become a fugitive in the end? Are you willing to have them go after your children in the end because you are unable to care for them inside prision walls? Its a catch 22.
Do I still have fears about CPS pushing themselves into our lives again, HELL YES. Everything I do as far as my kids are concerned, I think about that. Jobs, food, clothes, punishments, schooling, illness ...EVERYTHING.
I have one that fakes illness and pain to be able to stay home from school. I still make him go, and every day that I do, I get a call from the school telling me he is in pain and needs to go home. If I tell them hes faking. Im uncaring and neglectful. If I pick him up I get notes from the shcool telling me he has already missed too many days and again uncaring and neglectful for allowing it to happen. At times, I feel like I am up in strings like a marionette and my children are pulling the strings and CPS stands on smiling proudly in triumph.
-
debbiescalese
- Posts: 460
- Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:55 am
- Location: WV
Once your case is close you can go where ever you want but that does not mean cps wont come after you in that state/ county. There was something I read not to long ago and I'm not sure if it was on here or not but the parents had a problem with with the in laws. The mil had connections in that county they lived in and got custody of the children. The father moved to an another county and had the case transfered there the new judge was impartial and gave the kids back. If the problem your having has to do with the county your living in move to an area where your out of thier control. Look on the internet for the division of the state into regions. Depending on the population in the county one county could be 1 region or 3 counties could make up a region. See where I'm at my county and 2 neighboring counties are under one head person. So If I were to move to get away from this corrupt system I would have to move 2 counties away. Taht also doesn't mean that the county I move to wont be as corrupt or worse. That really is the problem. You could move and that doesn't mean your getting anything any better. All it takes is one call they hit the national database and all the closed stuff comes back on you. Now I have heard that some states require 3 calls of abuse/neglect to send somebody out you could look into that. You could also do some research into what states have better systems. Which states remove less children or have tougher laws on removal of children. Like I have heard that Mass. removes less children and AL has a better than most system but places like CA, FL, Tx, are some of the worst. And if you notice many of the people on these boards are from those states.
if they are just investigating..i would do it!
in fact, thats how i found this site. we were once again being investigated when we hadnt done a thing..the work was one of those overzealous freaks..we just packed up and moved overnight! they never went to my husbands work, never called me, anything. i just emailed the state director and told him that we were moving out of state due to their nazi tactics. they never found us.
in fact, thats how i found this site. we were once again being investigated when we hadnt done a thing..the work was one of those overzealous freaks..we just packed up and moved overnight! they never went to my husbands work, never called me, anything. i just emailed the state director and told him that we were moving out of state due to their nazi tactics. they never found us.
Running
I have known of three cases where that occured.
1. Is listed some where on this board. Relative took a child out the back door during a visit and left. Located shortly at a local hospital.
2. Mother tookone child (three year old girl) to the bathroom while I was in the play room with a five year old boy. Mother and child left the businding. I activated a Amber Alert and mother and child were located in Mississippi.
3. Texas CPS presently has three children missing. Mother went to a foster home and assaulted the foster mother and took the children. I believe them to be in Califormia with relatives. Ca;ofprnia LE and CPS are looking for them. Parents and childrn cannot get any government benefits under their SSN. One of the children is Special Medical Needs and may die soon if she does not get her medication. MOther knowns the child needs her medication and is in danger. I hope that she takes the child for medical care soon. Child was born addicted to crack and METH. It took three months to get her off the crack. The father really attacked me on the stand when he learned that CSP was allowing his "Little Darling" to be administered crack in the hospital. He wanted her at home so he could give her the medication. FYI it has to be administered by a special licensed MD.
1. Is listed some where on this board. Relative took a child out the back door during a visit and left. Located shortly at a local hospital.
2. Mother tookone child (three year old girl) to the bathroom while I was in the play room with a five year old boy. Mother and child left the businding. I activated a Amber Alert and mother and child were located in Mississippi.
3. Texas CPS presently has three children missing. Mother went to a foster home and assaulted the foster mother and took the children. I believe them to be in Califormia with relatives. Ca;ofprnia LE and CPS are looking for them. Parents and childrn cannot get any government benefits under their SSN. One of the children is Special Medical Needs and may die soon if she does not get her medication. MOther knowns the child needs her medication and is in danger. I hope that she takes the child for medical care soon. Child was born addicted to crack and METH. It took three months to get her off the crack. The father really attacked me on the stand when he learned that CSP was allowing his "Little Darling" to be administered crack in the hospital. He wanted her at home so he could give her the medication. FYI it has to be administered by a special licensed MD.
-
dznursie42
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:17 am
- Location: Pennsylvania
- Contact:
WHAT??? I am a Registered Nurse whos child was taken from me for having coke/crack in me and my babies system at birth. ( Clean for 4 years I have to add.) They dont administer crack to crack babies when they are born and MD's dont give meds. They are to good for that. LOL The nurses do it. That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
Hi, I am new here. Thank you to the people you started this forum. There aren't many places to turn to out there, so thanks.
I just want to say that I think about this constantly.
We went through the gestapo- type tactics of these legalized kidnappers and even though it's been a year, I think about it daily.
I was amazed at how much power they had and most of them were about as smart as a tree stump. Some idiot gets to decide if you are fit to be a parent while they look like they aren't fit to take care of a hamster.
My son opened a child proof bottle of childrens tylenol and I went to the hospital just to make sure everything was okay. My son was fine as it was just a small amount but...
We were told just to wait while they processed our paperwork. By this time it was an overnight hospital stay. We kept saying if he's fine what is the hold up? Well, behind our backs they secretly called police, cps and made TOTALLY false charges that I had munchausen syndrome and did this to our son. It was so insane what was happening that I was pretty much in shock. The police came busting in the hospital room like my husband and I were bank robbers or something. We were then told that the police were going to "do a walk through to see if it happened like we said it did." Amazing. right here in America. You wouldn't believe it unless you've gone through it yourself. You wouldn't believe you can have this happen without a warrant and without ANY proof whatsoever. My son never, ever had anything happen to him previously.
I didn't sleep for weeks, cried and cried. I felt like my whole world was coming to and end and then finally, by the grace of God or some sort of miracle the police dropped the charges and the case was closed.
My husband is back to normal. However, I am not. Not in the least. I am so afraid of taking him to the Doctor, to nursery school or any place were someone in a bad mood can pick us out of a crowd and make something up. I have told my husband that at anytime if there is ever a knock at the door, I will not answer and be gone overnight.
I was told by a relative that works in the system that if you leave BEFORE any investigation begins -if the police are not involved- you have a much higher chance of being left alone. Once you start talking (innocent or not) you are back in the system.
I can't believe that the most precious thing you have can be taken like this without any due process, proof or anything at all.
People who commit serious crimes on the streets of this country get treated far better than innocent parents do. This has almost turned into a phobia with me whereas we (mostly me) are afraid to have another child because what we went though as a family was so traumatizing that I think it would break me for it to happen again.
Thanks for listening.
I just want to say that I think about this constantly.
We went through the gestapo- type tactics of these legalized kidnappers and even though it's been a year, I think about it daily.
I was amazed at how much power they had and most of them were about as smart as a tree stump. Some idiot gets to decide if you are fit to be a parent while they look like they aren't fit to take care of a hamster.
My son opened a child proof bottle of childrens tylenol and I went to the hospital just to make sure everything was okay. My son was fine as it was just a small amount but...
We were told just to wait while they processed our paperwork. By this time it was an overnight hospital stay. We kept saying if he's fine what is the hold up? Well, behind our backs they secretly called police, cps and made TOTALLY false charges that I had munchausen syndrome and did this to our son. It was so insane what was happening that I was pretty much in shock. The police came busting in the hospital room like my husband and I were bank robbers or something. We were then told that the police were going to "do a walk through to see if it happened like we said it did." Amazing. right here in America. You wouldn't believe it unless you've gone through it yourself. You wouldn't believe you can have this happen without a warrant and without ANY proof whatsoever. My son never, ever had anything happen to him previously.
I didn't sleep for weeks, cried and cried. I felt like my whole world was coming to and end and then finally, by the grace of God or some sort of miracle the police dropped the charges and the case was closed.
My husband is back to normal. However, I am not. Not in the least. I am so afraid of taking him to the Doctor, to nursery school or any place were someone in a bad mood can pick us out of a crowd and make something up. I have told my husband that at anytime if there is ever a knock at the door, I will not answer and be gone overnight.
I was told by a relative that works in the system that if you leave BEFORE any investigation begins -if the police are not involved- you have a much higher chance of being left alone. Once you start talking (innocent or not) you are back in the system.
I can't believe that the most precious thing you have can be taken like this without any due process, proof or anything at all.
People who commit serious crimes on the streets of this country get treated far better than innocent parents do. This has almost turned into a phobia with me whereas we (mostly me) are afraid to have another child because what we went though as a family was so traumatizing that I think it would break me for it to happen again.
Thanks for listening.
-
Enchanted*Forester
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:27 am
- Location: Somewhere cold!
Surfgator
I know exactly how you feel! You said it exactly right: You think about it every day; your husband doesn't understand why you can't just "move on" with life; if there's a knock at the door, you're gone!
I will run with my kids if I ever hear a peep from the DHS, again. I've told my husband this. He understands, but thinks it will never happen. Well, I never thought I'd be involved in fighting for my kids in the first place. I'm not willing to risk thinking that I'm immune from their grasp.
Thanks to your information and others, I've developed a "safety plan." I know where I'll go, what I'll take and how to move on with life as a single mom.
Let's hope it never comes to this, but I'm ready if it does!
I will run with my kids if I ever hear a peep from the DHS, again. I've told my husband this. He understands, but thinks it will never happen. Well, I never thought I'd be involved in fighting for my kids in the first place. I'm not willing to risk thinking that I'm immune from their grasp.
Thanks to your information and others, I've developed a "safety plan." I know where I'll go, what I'll take and how to move on with life as a single mom.
Let's hope it never comes to this, but I'm ready if it does!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away...
-
Enchanted*Forester
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:27 am
- Location: Somewhere cold!
My worst fears have become true
We just learned today that there is ANOTHER case against my husband for abuse. My bags are packed. Should I just leave with the kids, now, or wait until they knock on the door?
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away...
-
Enchanted*Forester
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:27 am
- Location: Somewhere cold!
Current situation:
Last night, my now 8 year old, informed us that he was angry that he wasn't allowed to eat lunch at school anymore (his teacher told us several weeks ago that the lunch/recess ladies couldn't handle him anymore, so we began bringing him home for that time and returning him. The school is WELL AWARE of his behavioral issues, ADHD and violent outbursts!) So, he told his teacher that his dad punched him in the stomach. He explained that he thought that would allow him to eat at school, again. So, yesterday he also told us that he had a meeting with his school counselor and "a lady" and he told them about the (non-exisistent) punch. My husband called the DHS office and they confirmed that there is another open case against my husband, only. Of course, this happens on a Friday and we have to suffer through the weekend wondering what the hell's going to happen, now! I called a lawyer, but they weren't available until Monday (and we're still trying to pay back the thousands of dollars in lawyer fees from the last time we lost him over 2 years ago.) I keep thinking this isn't that bad, but I thought that way the first time we went through this an lost my son for 8 months! Now, I also have a 2 and a half year old. I will kill to protect my kids from the system.
I was told by a friend that in her view, the fact that they didn't remove my son from school yesterday is a good thing, and I agree. But, I need to hear some opinions of others who truely know what it's like being in this position. I live in Michigan. Does anyone have a lawyer suggestion?
I was told by a friend that in her view, the fact that they didn't remove my son from school yesterday is a good thing, and I agree. But, I need to hear some opinions of others who truely know what it's like being in this position. I live in Michigan. Does anyone have a lawyer suggestion?
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away...
-
Enchanted*Forester
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:27 am
- Location: Somewhere cold!
My plan
Now that I know how they operate, I plan on getting a lawyer (not a court appoint.) and going from there. My trunk is packed with enough clothes and camping supplies just in case it goes bad. I can't assume that since we are innocent (as we were the last time this happend) nothing will happen. I was so naive the first time. Thanks to this site and others, I may have a fighting chance.
I'll never understand why they seem to target us. We're educated, working, upstanding people who happen to have a child that is behaviorally challenged and we're all suffering for it. I made my husband promise me that when this passes, we are moving out of this county. I'd prefer out of the state, but he has kids from a previous relationship, so that's not really an option. Livingston County, Michigan is one of the worst places to protect your kids from the DHS. I will keep you posted. Thanks to all for their help!
I'll never understand why they seem to target us. We're educated, working, upstanding people who happen to have a child that is behaviorally challenged and we're all suffering for it. I made my husband promise me that when this passes, we are moving out of this county. I'd prefer out of the state, but he has kids from a previous relationship, so that's not really an option. Livingston County, Michigan is one of the worst places to protect your kids from the DHS. I will keep you posted. Thanks to all for their help!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away...
what happened
Just wan ted to know what happened? You could just go on a long vacation!
Dawn
Dawn
-
Enchanted*Forester
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:27 am
- Location: Somewhere cold!
The outcome
They closed the case in 2 days, yet never bothered telling us for over a month! A "Wrap Around" person told us in passing. I can't believe that these people made me wait in anquish for over a month! I had my car packed and ready to "vacation" the whole time, too!
We are currently trying to move out of this county. It's the WORST for these kind of cases!
The kids are fine, for now. Thanks for all of your suggestions. I can't tell you how much they comfort me!
We are currently trying to move out of this county. It's the WORST for these kind of cases!
The kids are fine, for now. Thanks for all of your suggestions. I can't tell you how much they comfort me!
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away...
that is good
That is good. The key is to leave before they even come to your house.
the only safe bet is another country. I know someone that took their kids to Russia since they had dual citizenship. She is afraid even to set foot in this counrty again.
Dawn
the only safe bet is another country. I know someone that took their kids to Russia since they had dual citizenship. She is afraid even to set foot in this counrty again.
Dawn
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests