Medical neglect

A place to discuss the many medical issues that may come up during the course of a CPS case.

Moderators: family_man, LindaJM

Mylittleones
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:56 pm

Medical neglect

Postby Mylittleones » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:34 pm

Hello everyone, CPS has mentioned taking us to court a few times the last time mentioned was for medical neglect. I have 2 children 2 yrs and 3 yrs old. My 2 yr old has bowed legs which is might be due to her liver we need to have further tests done. Also neither of them have had all their shots but that is because of how I feel about them. They have mentioned medical neglect since I haven't gotten them all of their shots and according one of the workers seems like it might be because I don't want them to be hurt and of course I don't want them to be but that isn't the reason. I have even asked their doctor for separate shots like the MMR vaccine and a few others so just to prevent pain can't be the only reason. Can CPS take them if I don't get them all of their shots? One of the exemptions California has is philosophical, can I use that against CPS? Can they even take them for them not having all of their shots??

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Eljay » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:23 pm

The problem with CPS is that if they get in their heads that they want to take your kids, they will twist your words and fabricate lies to make it happen. So, when you ask, "can CPS take them if ______" ... well, they can take them if they make up enough lies. That may sound paranoid if you're new to all of this, but start reading some cases on this website and you'll change your tune.

You said you're in CA... I hope not LA County. How far would you have to move to get out of your county/jurisdiction?
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

Mylittleones
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:56 pm

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Mylittleones » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:56 pm

Eljay wrote:The problem with CPS is that if they get in their heads that they want to take your kids, they will twist your words and fabricate lies to make it happen. So, when you ask, "can CPS take them if ______" ... well, they can take them if they make up enough lies. That may sound paranoid if you're new to all of this, but start reading some cases on this website and you'll change your tune.

You said you're in CA... I hope not LA County. How far would you have to move to get out of your county/jurisdiction?


I didn't use to think CPS was worried about insignificant things like houses and dishes. I have cousins that were finally removed from their home cause of abuse especially their stepmother and I remember when I was little how they used to be treated and even after having been reported many many times by family members they didn't do anything about it, but for my case they seemed to show up the same day?! Even my kids doctor couldn't believe I had a CPS case, she thought it was a waste of time too.

To answer your question about about which county I'm in San Francisco county. Our case worker seems to be better even. The one that seems to be making a big deal out of everything is the 'services worker' I think thats what they called her shes supposed to be trying to help us with getting resources. I think shes going to maybe try to cause problems.

What can I do to help make sure they can't take them?

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Eljay » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:08 pm

You've got to be careful... they may bait you with "we're just trying to help you find some programs to benefit you and your kids. Maybe some free vaccinations? Do they need any? Yes, they do?" WHAM! You're in court for medical neglect. They will make mountains out of molehills. Minimize what you say to them. They prey on the poor and uninformed. Their jobs are supposed to be to protect children, but they have no jobs if people don't have problems. Their goal is to generate a need for "services" which the federal gov't pays them to provide; foster care which pays them money on a monthly basis while the children are under their control; adoption which is a bonus incentive of $4,000-6,000 with another $2,000 bonus for special needs children (this info was published by former Senator Nancy Schaefer, God rest her sole). So, darling babies & toddlers and special needs children become product for them.

STOP TALKING TO THEM. You need to assert that your children are just fine and you don't need their help. Ask your doctor to prepare a letter stating that they are receiving adequate medical care and that your doctor sees no lack of care or concern on your part. CPS will ask for release of medical information so that they can "confirm" it which is just a fishing expedition for them. Do not give them consent or sign any of their papers. Tell them there is no need for their intervention, that you are doing exactly as your doctor recommends. OTOH, if you are delaying vaccinations *AGAINST* the children's pediatrician's recommendations, you're in trouble.

Yes, you may have the right to abstain from vaccs, but CPS does not give a rat's patootie about your rights, nor your children's rights. If they take your children from you, even temporarily, because of the vaccination issue, you will regret it for the rest of your life. Stop talking to them, don't let them in your house... if they have already verbally threatened to petition the court for custody, you're going to have to get pissed and handle it NOW. Get the letter from your doctor, have a lawyer prepare a letter that goes to CPS with the letter from the doctor stating that because of blah blah blah, it is expected that your investigation/case be closed immediately.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

Mylittleones
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:56 pm

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Mylittleones » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:56 pm

Unfortunately I signed a release for medical records the night the first worker came I thought I had to. I have talked to their doctor about their vacc's before and shes not concerned about them. The first worker that came said I would need to present research that I've done to show why I don't believe in vacc's which I have been.

I have read on a few sites that once you let them in you lose your 4th amendment rights against them and they can enter whenever they want. Is that true? I'm concerned that doing so would make them mad and make them want to take them away

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Eljay » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:36 am

You *NEED* your doctor to back you up, FIRMLY, and make all indications that your children are getting exactly the medical care your children's pediatrician has recommended. Quit trying to justify YOUR position to them... generally speaking, they think most parents are incompetent, abusive, neglectful, etc. ... without that foundation, they wouldn't have jobs. What you think, your rights, your beliefs don't matter to them. They only care about their opinions and their paychecks. Yes, they can and WILL take your children for not getting their shots. Your kid could fall and skin a knee and you administer first aid at home and they will run to court with a claim that you REFUSED MEDICAL ATTENTION FOR A SEVERE INJURY! It sounds like you are still in the investigation phase and you need to do everything in your power to get them to close your case. Call your doctor, beg, plead and pay to get a letter and phone call to CPS stating that your children are and always have received all of the medical care they need. Again, if they've threatened to take you to court, they will. In their twisted minds, they think they are rescuing a child from certain death by taking them away from you, and it doesn't cost them any time (it's their job), money or emotional turmoil.

Regarding the 4th amendment rights and their right to enter anytime after that, no that's not true. Besides, in your case, it's a medical neglect issue, not a housing/cleanliness issue, right? There is no need for them to be searching your home (other than to find/fabricate more evidence to build up their case). They cannot enter your house without a warrant. Now, keep in mind that if they want a warrant, it's very easy for them to lie to the courts and get one. Just arrange all future meetings at their offices or your lawyer's offices.

Also, since your kids are small, they aren't in school. Now would be an ideal time to move, even if you're just moving to your mother's or great-great uncle's house for a month, to get them to transfer your case to another county and close yours, then move back and hope to never see them again (at least never answer the door!) BTW, how did they come to enter your lives in the first place? I sure hope it wasn't a call from your doctor's office!
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

Mylittleones
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:56 pm

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Mylittleones » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:16 pm

Eljay wrote:You *NEED* your doctor to back you up, FIRMLY, and make all indications that your children are getting exactly the medical care your children's pediatrician has recommended. Quit trying to justify YOUR position to them... generally speaking, they think most parents are incompetent, abusive, neglectful, etc. ... without that foundation, they wouldn't have jobs. What you think, your rights, your beliefs don't matter to them. They only care about their opinions and their paychecks. Yes, they can and WILL take your children for not getting their shots. Your kid could fall and skin a knee and you administer first aid at home and they will run to court with a claim that you REFUSED MEDICAL ATTENTION FOR A SEVERE INJURY! It sounds like you are still in the investigation phase and you need to do everything in your power to get them to close your case. Call your doctor, beg, plead and pay to get a letter and phone call to CPS stating that your children are and always have received all of the medical care they need. Again, if they've threatened to take you to court, they will. In their twisted minds, they think they are rescuing a child from certain death by taking them away from you, and it doesn't cost them any time (it's their job), money or emotional turmoil.

I won't be able to talk to their doctor right away because she is out of the office until possibly next week for family and she is the only doctor they've really seen since they were little. If I can get her to back me up about the shots would that help too? About them not caring about my rights could I threaten to sue for not respecting them if they try to take the kids? Would I have a chance to defend myself before they give the court order to take them?

Regarding the 4th amendment rights and their right to enter anytime after that, no that's not true. Besides, in your case, it's a medical neglect issue, not a housing/cleanliness issue, right? There is no need for them to be searching your home (other than to find/fabricate more evidence to build up their case). They cannot enter your house without a warrant. Now, keep in mind that if they want a warrant, it's very easy for them to lie to the courts and get one. Just arrange all future meetings at their offices or your lawyer's offices.


Thats another problem there are cleanliness and abuse allegations against us. The apartment wasn't perfect when they came there were dirty dishes and clothes. The main case worker mentioned at one of the meetings she wanted to come check the apartment one more time with her supervisor to make sure it was fine. They did and they said it looked fine but there were dirty dishes which I was washing when they got there, because there services worker told us to make sure there were NO dirty dishes but the kids had eaten lunch. They didn't say anything about them but I have no idea what they might of put in the case file though they did say they were happy with the improvement. About the abuse they haven't really brought it up. The services worker did take us to their last doctors appt. I don't even know if I had to let her go. The doctor said they were healthy and very smart.

BTW, how did they come to enter your lives in the first place? I sure hope it wasn't a call from your doctor's office!

This started because we live in a subsidized apartment building and we have counselors we can meet with but we chose not to. She called the police and had them enter my apartment illegally they were told they could not enter and they made my boyfriend/husband go outside and came in anyways without a warrant. There were witnesses to what happened and were also saying that was a violation of privacy. The counselor is not the property manager and she also entered without giving us a 24 hr notice. CPS came about 3 hrs later for cleanliness and abuse allegations. Thank you for your help too

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Eljay » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:55 pm

Your case is sounding worse and worse. Threaten to sue them? Would you poke a rabid dog with a stick, with no fence between you, while you were holding your babies? Please know that CPS workers have PROSECUTORIAL IMMUNITY so you won't be taking on one lying CPS caseworker, but then entire CPS legal team and they have unlimited resources. You're living in subsidized housing? Unless you're committing fraud and secretly have $2-300,000 stashed away to spend on a lawyer to bring suit *AND* you are completely, 100% innocent of every single allegation *AND* can prove it, you're not going to have any luck trying to fighting them in court.

No, you don't get to defend yourself before, during, or after a dependency hearing. They will make up whatever they want to say, take it to the judge and the judge will rule without hearing a peep out of you or your court appointed attorney (who will be working for the same county that employs your CPS workers). They will take the kids first, then you'll get the chance to take it to trial, but you will be without your kids for the weeks or months until the trial. And guess what, they will likely ask the courts to order that your children get those vaccinations you are fighting so hard to avoid.

As for the police entering your apt, well... if they were responding to an allegation of abuse that was supposedly occurring at the time, they are going to claim it was an emergency. There's got to be more to the story there.... I cannot fathom for a microsecond that any police officer in the world would be compelled to forcibly enter an apartment because you chose not to participate in a voluntary counseling session. Come on.... What really happened?

I'm going to say it one more time.... you need to move. Just you and the girls, until you can get your case closed. Move to the next county or wherever you need to get out of their jurisdiction. Oh, maybe I'm overreacting and they're just nice ladies looking to help you, but let me warn you, if they thought there was nothing there to concern them, they wouldn't be around for WEEKS continuing their investigation of you. They can be very, very sneaky. Ours tried an emergency removal hearing WITHOUT NOTIFYING US AT ALL!!! but the judge saw through their b.s. and sent it back to them. Then they tried AGAIN, right away, notifying us at 4 p.m. on a Thursday when the office was closed on Friday so we had to be at court 8 a.m. Monday morning having NO CLUE whatsoever as to what their allegations were. Fortunately, I lawyered up on Thursday night which while expensive, was the best $12k I ever spent.

Okay.... I'll say it again. MOVE!!!!!! If not temporarily, permanently... you have a live-in counselor who called the police on you???? Sounds like CPS spies!
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

Mylittleones
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:56 pm

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Mylittleones » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:02 pm

I'm not saying I'll just choose to sue I just mainly meant that as a threat to them, but it seems that might not work.

As for the police entering they saw the children but entered anyways, they said they needed to search the premises even after the police saw them, there were even witnesses but I didn't think for a second to ask for an actual warrant(I feel completely stupid about that). The counselor wanted us to meet with her we refused since its not a requirement for us to least not until CPS said they wanted us to, not once did we have these kind of problems until she got herself involved. Now we're meeting with a different counselor. Their actually more called Tenant Services their supposed to be for if tenants need services.

About moving couldn't they just transfer our case to wherever we move?

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Eljay » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:00 pm

Moving will transfer your case and close your old one. Your current case has three weeks of evidence collection invested and, again, if they thought there was nothing there, they would have closed it as unfounded right away. Once you move, they will transfer, your new area will seek you out, you will know better than to talk to them (other than asking what their specific allegations are and giving them that important letter from the kids' ped), old area will close your case, then move back. Moving now would just be nip this in the bud. If you get served with papers for a dependency hearing, move yesterday, then when you go to court you can tell your lawyer that you've moved and they will not have jurisdiction over your children. If they ask you why, tell them it was for in the best interest of the children.

You should go apartment shopping this week, get a lease agreement, just in case.

So.... what were the police told that caused them to forcibly enter your apartment?
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

Mylittleones
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:56 pm

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Mylittleones » Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:06 am

Eljay wrote:Moving will transfer your case and close your old one. Your current case has three weeks of evidence collection invested and, again, if they thought there was nothing there, they would have closed it as unfounded right away. Once you move, they will transfer, your new area will seek you out, you will know better than to talk to them (other than asking what their specific allegations are and giving them that important letter from the kids' ped), old area will close your case, then move back. Moving now would just be nip this in the bud. If you get served with papers for a dependency hearing, move yesterday, then when you go to court you can tell your lawyer that you've moved and they will not have jurisdiction over your children. If they ask you why, tell them it was for in the best interest of the children.

You should go apartment shopping this week, get a lease agreement, just in case.

So.... what were the police told that caused them to forcibly enter your apartment?


I don't know what the police were told but when they came to the door they said they needed to see the kids or search the apartment they saw the kids and they were fine then they changed it and said they needed to search the apartment and were denied permission.

As for moving would we be able to keep our lease at our current apartment? Or would they then say since we still have it that they think we'll move back?

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: Medical neglect

Postby Eljay » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:26 am

Just you and the girls would move... you only need to get the kids out of the jurisdiction temporarily. Do you have a trusted relative you can go stay with? You should keep your current place, if you think that's a good idea. Somebody there is sabotaging your life, though, so it sounds like a less than ideal situation to me.

You should call the police and have a conversation with them to find out just who said what. Clearly, since their inspection showed no crime, you should be on good terms with them. No need to confront, but for your family's sake, you need to know who is making these false allegations and what the supposed allegations are/were at that time. I'm no expert, but I'd say there is far more CPS corruption than police corruption. If you tell a police officer that you want to see a warrant, he'll back off whereas a CPS worker will lie to convince you (so they can break the law and it won't change their case). With the police, they know there will be hell to pay and they'll get nowhere in court if they don't read you your rights, produce a warrant, etc. I know that there are people out there who are hesitant to involve the police, but IMHO they are our friends. In our CPS case, the police/investigator was one of the greatest resources because he was a second set of ears in the room when they were interviewing my 11 yr old daughter. I was able to go back to the police and say, "Did my daughter actually speak those words or did the caseworker form the question?" From this I learned how CPS manipulates. The police have no financial incentive to lie, create a need for "services" or any of the crap that CPS does.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----


Return to “Medical Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest