What do u think about 416 children removed? from Texas

[donita]

Frustrated,

I'm wondering what will CPS do when the FDLS women begin having more children to replace the ones that were taken from them. Is CPS going to take the new babies at birth? And forgive me, but who are they going to give these new babies to? Gay and Lesbian families perhaps? You don't have to let yourself be drawn into my statement. I'm just reacting to my own experience with CPS. But, there IS a sect of people who can't have children that would find an opportunity in this situation.

donita

[Frustrated]

If the CPS shows and present the Evidence Proof in Court that shows that there were abuses on most Children, you can bet your dollars, they will take more babies from Sect. Mothers.

I am assuming the Sect. Mothers will go deep underground, and will no longer at the Zion Compound, they will live elsewhere and have their babies somewhere else. Like a safe haven somewhere where it is not highly politicial and less laws. most likely in the third countries. But there's Mexico....and the list go on and on...

then I was thinking about the other cities, Utah, Arizona and B.C Why they are not raiding them and taking their children as well?
I don't know, I think the whole case is stinking to high sky, and something is fishy to me. It seems to me that it is clearly planned right from the start, possibly back when they raided in 1953 of Short Creek.

They will give the Children up for Adoptions, Perm. Foster care, and other avenues. but the CPS has to prove that Abuses occured...with Evidence in Court. The Texas Officals have to criminally charge the men with proper channels. It seems to me they are waiting for the DNA results. I am sure the DNA samples is not going to help but will only determine the parentage. But not for the perpetrators.

It's just something is not right and I am betting it is the Government that is doing all of this charade with the help of Ex-Sect. Members. The CPS are using past histories and statements from Ex-Sect. Members from past abuses and pin the allegations on FLDS. If they can truly present the Evidence in Court without fabrications to the documents/records, I will believe it. Otherwise, with the hearsay, I don't believe it. I still don't condone child rape on underaged children, but we need the Evidence and Proof to back up the allegations.

[Momoffor]

The way that you are defending that CULT is scary. Other CULTS are being brought down too, but not just because its 'suspected' suspecisions, there needs to be a reason. I dont about the pologymist CULTS in Canada as what goes on in Canada is Canadas business!!

I bet you think that everyone was out to get poor Jim Jones too when all he wanted to do was worship in HIS way.

Perhaps you dont believe in the holucast either, those are just lies and propganda to bring down the arian race even more. The lies the Jews made up!!

I bet Chuck Mason was just being picked on by the government too, when all he wanted to do was hang out with his family and do 'groovy' things.

O O O my favie right now is from Obamas former pastor saying AIDS is some sort of government conspiracy directed at black people.

Those poor polygamists....all they did was force underage girls into marriage with older men who had multiple wives and reproduce as many children as possible. Even though both things were against the law, the mean old government is picking on them for NO reason.


Some may argue that it wasnt forced these girls wanted to do this, but they were brainwashed in the name of religion that is what they are supposed to do. Therefore, it is still forced through manipulation.

As to the question about will the mothers future children be taken away too ...cant take em if you cant find em or even know who they are. This isnt really the group of folks that goes around applying for food stamps and medicaid to put that big red flag out there.

I have said it before and Ill say it again, I dont think that this has anything to do with this board. Even if it was, here is the big difference between those on this board, and those people. They have LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of money to fight PLUS, they are gaining sympathy from the public as they go.

If one of your daughters ever ends up in a cult where things like this are happening and the law tells you there is nothing that can be done because they cant pick on people in the name of religion, especially when your daughter chose to be there. Even though she had been brainwashed by the people holding her 'captive'. Would you honestly accept that answer?

[Michael]

In Texas CPS is a civil agency they do not file any criminal charges. Any and all criminal charges are filed by the district attorney. The DA office works on criminal violations which are different from Texas Civil Code.

If a woman has her rights terminated then CPS does remove any additional children that are born to that woman. If they are aware of any births. The FLDS do not record births in the county records so CPS would not know of any births unless then receive a report.

With the way the FLDS change and refuse to provide identities it is unlikely that CPS will be able to prove that any specific woman had her rights previously terminated.

[Frustrated]

Who said that I accept this Cult. I do not accept their Religion nor I don't practice it. Unforunately, this has been known and been accepted by the Government. This is a licensed and practiced religion in this Country, although the polygamy is illegal. Even FLDS does contract work for the Government and the Pentagon pays them to do some military work.
Jesus Christ of Latter Saint Days is been known and registered as a Religion, a Mormon.
I don't know if it is registered as a "cult". But everyone has the Right to practice their "religion" under the Consitutional Right. Even if you don't like it.
If the Cult is not registered with the Government, then it is not acceptable.

I understand what you mean about your children being forced and brainwashed into a Cult. No, I wouldn't accept my children to be in a new found cult. But these FLDS People has been in there since 18th Century. It is not like they "entered" into Cult, they has been there for a Century. This is what they have been accustomed to, and grew up with. This is by their eyes, is normal to them.

Just like a person entered into Scientiology for the first time, it is his or her right, but if it is a known Cult, then we have to do something about it to save that person. But if the person has been into Scientiology for ages, since birth, this is his or her Religion. We do not have the Right to interfere into their Lives. and we can't interfere into their Family Life either, especially if they have rooted their upbringing the same way since birth, for generations.

Just like under the Consitutional Right, everyone has the right to exercise their Right. If these Cults are not registered by the Government, the Government needs to shut it down. Why are they still standing, which I do not know to that answer. If this Religion is REGISTERED, then it is not a Cult. It is like the Mormons, but more fundamental, like they do things the old way, their old rules, according to the Bible. etc...etc...LDS, the Mormons are REGISTERED Religion under the Government in USA. It is not a Cult. That's the difference.

Waco, the unforunate day, where 86 people died, they were under control of a Cult, because their so called Religion is not known to the Government. and was controlled and brainwashed by David Koresh. The Government has shut down that so called Cult. Because it wasn't registered within the Government through proper channels.
Just like any other Religions, Islam, Buddism, Jeova's Witnesses, Catholics, Baptists, Protestants, they are all registered Religion under the Government. Some say some of them are a Cult. Then why are they registered and accepted within our Society? You can see them in the Yellow Pages, under Churches, and you will see such things. But Scientiology is not listed in the yellow pages under Churches, so it must be a Cult. I do not know if they are registered.

But it is not about Religion here, it is about Child Abuse, CPS says...but we object to people's suffereing, because their civil Rights were violated under the Consitituional right. Just like everyone has the Right to Due Process, and eveyone has the Civil Rights, even the Guilty ones. They have to go to Court Trial to be tried and if they are guilty, they go to Prison. We are ALL protected under the Consitutional Right, but the problem is that they don't want you and everyone else to use it. Hence the violations all over. We give Sympathy to FLDS because their civil Rights were violated. Let's give them Due Process and their Day in Court to prove and present their Evidence and the State of Texas gets to prove and present their Evidence. If it shows that FLDS are guilty, then so be it. If they are innocent, then children must go back. Here, we are too quick to Judge everyone without the evidence to back it up. We stick to the facts, and prove it, then we don't have to judge. If there are proof of these things happening, then FLDS must be shut down because of their ways are not acceptable.
Remember the Marriage Laws in Texas has been amended in year 2005 to 16, before 2005, it was 14. I am assuming that's why Warren Jeffs send his devout people to Zion Compound in Texas where the Laws are respected. But then there are "spiritual marriages" among minors, we HAVE TO PROVE it. If no proof, no evidence, then we have nothing on FLDS.

FLDS and their Lawyers say they have the evidence that they have obeyed the Laws. If this incident occured, we need to bring the Men to Court, and prove that they did break the Laws. But their thinking they think they did everything is normal. They say they did nothing wrong. It is going to be hard to prove all of these stuff and present to the Court. It is going to be long drawn Trial, for about 3 years. If we see the Evidence proof, then we will support the State's decisions. If we don't see any Evidence, then there is no cause to pursue this but only offer sympathy to FLDS for the ordeal they were put through. We went through the same ordeal from CPS, so it is our duty to lend support because we know what CPS had done, and now FLDS are telling the people what happened to them are the same circumstances happened to us.

Again, I want to remind you, I do not condone any child abuse, child rape, any forms of abuse on any children. period. If there are concrete proof and evidence to back all of these up, then I am all for it. Children's Rights here are important and so is their best interests. We need to make sure that is being carried out, after all, it is about the CHILDREN. We need to protect them on both sides. From CPS and FLDS. They need neutraliity to protect them and their wishes. If they say it happened to them, then we must respect that. If CPS forces them to say it, then it is NOT ACCEPTABLE. If the Children said No, and CPS forces them anyways, is still NOT ACCEPTABLE. We need to protect the Children from anything, anybody. on all both sides. If the FLDS Mothers did not do anything wrong, they need to be with these Children. If something was wrong, then we need to correct it rather to force everybody out. Most Children needs a Mother and a Father for normal developmens, and that is without any abuses on them. They need to have a normal Childhood without interference into their family life.

Why didn't we remove the men?

That's the question.

[katgotsteve]

here is my opinion on this:

when cps walks into your home and investigates you, it is simple they know who your children are. what i am gathering from here is that even most children do not know who gave birth to them, most have been taught to lie about ages if asked by outsiders and most of the women have been brainwashed into only listening to the father of the household. then it goes to protection, can or will these mothers protect the children from the abuse. most of them will not, they believe in this lifestyle, that is truly against the law. we live the USA and we have freedom of religion, we do not have the right to use our religion as a crutch to break the law.
FDLS is a break off of the mormon religion that has been twisted and perverted beyond belief. it is a group of men who want control over the world. a child, by law, is under the age of 16 and can not consent to marriage or sex. 2005 was three years ago, which means that even the 14 year old would now be 17 and fall outside that restriction. the problem comes is that they have continued to break this law after it was put in place. i think the children will become comfortable and start to speak out about the abuse, from what i have read some already have.
also, lets go back to the orginal call. a girl named sarah called and made a claim. the men lied and said there was no sarah when asked. yet some of the children remember a sarah. who is to say that she was not moved to some other compound or eliminated permanently. it has been done by other cults and religions.
i feel that although we all know CPS is far from perfect, they are trying to all they can do. we also know that when a call is made, for example, i get called on for beating my child and they walk in and see a crack pipe on the table, the beating does not become the issue but drug use does. that is just how it works. Warren Jeffs has been proven in a court of law to allow child rape to happen in his sect, he has forced young children into marriage with men. Exsect member, have talked about being forced to marry one man and then it is decided that she is not worthy of him and forced to marry someone else. there is no childhood, there is no making a place in the world for yourself. the young girls are groomed for this. they do not get a chance to make a choice about love or about having sex for the first time or choosing not have to sex. it is all about controling thier lives.
before this raid, i was watching a show on ID. it was from an exsect member who now helped young girls escape before they are forced into marriage. she never fell to drug abuse, but she did fall into depression after she left. her story was sad. she was 14 when she was forced to marry a cousin, she was wife number 1 for this young man. she was headstrong like most kids her age are. she had 4 children. when she came into her early 20 the man she was married too was told he could not handle her, so he was suppose to divorce her and she would then become the bride of her stepfather. the man she had called father for as long as she could remember, now wanted her as his wife. she was disgusted and decided to leave. she took her 4 children and ran. she has now joined an organization to help young girls leave these compounds and help them emancipate themselves so they can have a life that she was never given.
the whole time i am watching this show, i am torn. i think how awful that these girls live like this and then i remember the mothers and think how awful to have your child run away. what i think i have determined is that there is no happy ending here. both the parents and the children loose. just like the situation at this compound. i hope that these children do not become statistics like so many other children in cps custody.

[Frustrated]

Well said, I agree with you on that one on most, Katgoskate.

I am compelled to get two sides to the whole story. That's half of the story, and I like to get the whole story before we can draw its conclusions and judgements. I like to see a bigger picture and draw its Evidence into play.

What if this Flora Jessop left being angry for being outcasted, and she turned to Drugs, Prositution, Depression, then came back to unleash her revenge? If people were to leave a child somewhere strange, alone on the corner with no food, no where to go, the child can become bitter and angry at the parent for doing this to him or her.
Have to think and consider all of these things into equation. What if it was totally the other way, the opposite? What if someone is lying? What if CPS are lying about the whole thing? Maybe there are no younger girls being pregnant? none. It is just hearsay?
We have yet, not heard hard proof, and evidence here, it is most vague we would hear on the news. But I do know these Evidence will be turned over to Grand Jury in June to determine its fate. If the Grand Jury finds enough Evidence to proceed, then I will believe the Evidence. If there isn't any evidence, then the whole case falls apart.
There are always another side to the story. some have an agenda to theirs, one for Carolyn, her book has been skyrocketed since the hoax call in one week.
We all know that CPS are capable of fabricating, lying, extort, gave misleading and tricky questions (who knows about repeative questions over and over?) and we all know this from our Experiences. We saw how they mishandled the cases, has been seen lying to everyone involved.

I just say I don't believe it until I will see for the Evidence to believe it. I will believe it when I see it. I don't believe CPS, not for one second. They acts like the gestapo tactics, who are we to say if they lied about the whole thing?

We shall see what the outcome of this Grand Jury in June and what their decisions will be. So far, we have no Criminal Charges laid, Swinton is not charged for hoax call, we have over 500 DNA samples, we have hundreds of documents/records..etc...we had these Bishop Records that prove that they are above 16. Most were 18, and everything else. We just have to put consideration and put the Evidence as they are.
I just have a feeling that there are not enough Evidence there as they mentioned. Even the Warrant was cancelled by Texas Officals. They haven't found anything damaging with the records/documents, or anything. What if it was their charade and they fabricated the whole thing? We just don't know. We have to see the Evidence to make an actual determination.

I have to agree with you, that these Children deserve better than this. from Both sides. They don't need to be forced by CPS either. With Questions, with Medical Examination, with lining up like cattles to do eye balling test to determine their ages, forced to take pregnancy tests when they said no, extensive questioniong all day until returned at 10 PM? That is too much for a young child, it is easy to break them down by pushing them to answer. That's how they will get them to tell. These Children could be forced the same way by CPS but some one said, it is better for less of two evils?

[donita]

I want proof as well.

donita

[Frustrated]

I want to remind everyone that I do not condone child abuse or child rapes on any children. This is to say more that I believe also IN Civil Rights for everyone under the Consitutional Rights. If some one is denied due process. I question it. If I see some inconsistencies, I also question it. The whole FLDS Case which I feel is somewhat missing its puzzle and I feel something is not right here.

Here for an example on why I don't believe what the State of Texas and CPS:

1) Rosita Swinton called the private phone number at the shelter rather using the main line. How does she know the private number? Flora Jessop was rumored to have taped 40 hours worth of tapes conversing with this Rosita Swinton and Swinton has called Flora Jessop. Again, HOW did SHE know Flora Jessop's phone number???

2) Search Warrant was cancelled with Mr. Barlow searching for 16 years old Girl Sarah for being abused by Mr. Barlow. What was in the Search Warrant? and why is the State Texas Officals cancelling them? Is this a Illegal Search and Seizure according to the Consitution? What about discoveries law? Mr. Barlow has NOT seen Texas for since 1977! and he reports to his own probation officer regularly and the probation officer can vouch for him.

3) Bishop records released to the public which should have been sealed into an evidence bag at the storage room and can be viewed by its prosecutors, reviewers, judges, and possible for the defense attornies. Defense Attorney for FLDS will argue that the State has mishandled its Evidence and there was sloppy mishandling and criss-contamination to its Evidence. The Question is WHY was this released to the Media?? Why would CPS has such evidence where it should have been sealed?

4) Disputed ages of the children and CPS has used eye balling test to determine their ages which is not reliable source of actual ages. It is not acceptable and yet CPS claims that there are teenagers being pregnant and or had given birth before. But CPS ARE NOT SAYING which ages they were! There are disputes that these girls were 18 years old or above. 20 out of the 31 supposed pregnant or had a child underaged girls ARE at 18 years old, and above, being an "Adult". CPS has not yet said there are any "13 years old" girl being pregnant. There are disputes to their ages, but CPS has ranged them from 14 to 17 but has not confirmed to that fact.

5) Xrays that CPS has said that there are broken bones in VERY YOUNG CHILDREN. The Question is why aren't there any broken bones in older children? The CPS has not confirmed and am not sure if these broken bones are the result of child abuse. I am sure they are having bone specialists viewing them at the present time. There are disputed claims from FLDS that these broken bones were treated by their own Doctor at the Zion Compound and Doctor send the serious ones to the other two medical clinics that can be VERIFIED by its medical records! FLDS also claimed that it resulted by children falling into things, outside, beds, etc....young children are known to break bones every once in a while. FLDS however, has also mentioned there are brittle bone disease in OTHER COMMUNITIES, not of that Zion Compound in question. Meaning the twin cities of Colorado City and Hildsale.

6) CPS has too much power handling its evidence rather having the Prosecutors handle it, there are NO CURRENT CRIMINAL CHARGES thus far. Judge has just ordered a special Texas Attorney General to assume Criminal Cases but the Criminal Code has stated that they can't handle court level court cases but to have ONLY District attornies around Texas to handle them. I don't know why there was such order to begin with. Will here be any Grand Jury to determine Criminal Charges? Why did they drop two men's criminal charges for concealing its evidence and for fraud?

7) We are shown very little and have not seen concrete evidence, and the Search Warrant by itself is going to be challenged by Defense Attornies saying this unwarrants such search and seizure and has no basis to it. I understand that CPS handles these cases civilly and it seems to me that they are above the law, doing everything in their power to keep the Children in State's Custody. I can see that CPS are trying to involve themselves in Criminal proceedings whereas they should NOT have. Because the CPS only handles civil cases. I don't know why CPS has so much vextation to be involved with the State unless there is something to motivate them in such matters. IE: State Funds Dollars to everyone, and everyone pockets the money for each child sent to permanent Foster Care and Adoptions. It is the money to be made here. Did you know that CPS Texas has requested more State Funds in the year of 2007? LAST YEAR? and to further that they also requested an additional 1,000 CPS personnel??? You can see that article right here on Fight CPS.com. CPS has just requested Millions of dollars near the year end?

________________________________

To update, I still don't believe what the State and CPS Texas has to say, they have not shown concrete evidence to back up their CLAIMS. Bishop Records shows most are above 16 to 18. DNA Samples we will be awaiting for to see if it will determine their parentage but there is more to it, DNA samples are used to determine criminal charges as well. I don't believe it until I see the PROOF. I still don't condone young marriages as young as 13, or any forced child rapes. But I don't question anybody who really wants to marry above age 16 to 18. If they have greatest desire to do so, and wants this. Without Force. They give their consent. If they were forced into marriages and forced to have sex with older men, then we can bring criminal charges and have their voices heard. Everyone should have equal treatment to their Rights to due process, everyone should be respected equally to protect their consitiutional right. You can't force them into anything if they had said No to you. I also question about Forced Medical Examinations on the girls where they had pleaded No. This is very disconcerting and American Rights Association is going to review everyone's rights to see if they were protected or Violated. I am concerned about the Children's Welfare and for their Rights to be protected and voiced out without force or brainwashed. They should be doing on their own free will, they deserve a happy childhood. I hope and pray for these Children that their ordeal will be minimal. If the truth will remain to be told, and seen, we will see the Truth in the end what REALLY HAPPENED. Whether it is on FLDS side, or the State's side. Their fate and their futures of everyone's involved hangs in balance.
But the circumstances surrrounding these cases, I still have not yet seen the proof, and having known the history of what CPS does to families, I don't believe anything CPS tells out to the Media. It is propganda and PR camapign. They are not really in this for Child protection, but PR campaign to make CPS organization look really good. Why did you think CPS always stood up and tell the Media and give out damaging evidences out there where it should have been SEALED?????????????????????????????????

That's the question.

[Frustrated]

It was rumored from other sources that people witnessed what went on at the stables (at the Colesium) that a CPS worker was abusing the children with pin needles because they could not determine which child goes with which mother so the worker put the pin needles on the child's finger to see if the child will run to the Mother for Comfort.

THAT IS ABUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

If THAT IS TRUE, CPS must pay for its crimes on these poor children. that's utterly unacceptable form of determing which child goes to which mother! why hurt a child and make her or him cry? terrorizing these poor children?

It better not be true but if Witnesses witnessed that went on behind closed doors...CPS are in great trouble. Again this is from a Witness who wrote on another blog saying she saw that incident in question. It better not be true. If witnesses are coming forward in Court saying that incident in question was true. There will be biggest lawsuit yet to come. I cannot imagine anyone doing that to a child "just to see" who he or she is going to which mother????

I don't know what else went on there, but Lawyers who went to the Colseium, were seen CRYING. I am guessing the Lawyers for the Children saw plenty!

[Frustrated]

THANK GOODNESS for that news article, now we finally getting the TRUTH out for the people what CPS ACTUALLY STANDS FOR. such as being rude, lying, uncompassionate, cheating, fabricating reports, eyeballing ages of minors/adults, holding adults as hostages.

I am seeing we FINALLY ARE SEEING THE TRUTH COMING OUT...now people are questioning the CPS organization itself of their sociopath tactics. Being rude and lying are one of them. I think and feel that God says is true, that the TRUTH will come out and promises that the children will be returned back to parents. That yet I have not seen, but do believe it will happen. Because for that reason, most minors (27 girls) ages are in dispute. Most chances they are all Adults.

Why are they holding Adults? First time I have ever seen in CPS history that they hold Adults in a Child Protective Custody. It will be very interesting we see all of this unfold that it shows that CPS are totally wrong about this FLDS Case. No abuses occured here. You see them looking younger because of their fair skins, their priarie dresses, and they are more healthy than most of us here. They eat healthy diets that make them look younger, they don't wear make up. etc...I think there will be lawsuits because they held Adults against their wills just to get their babies?

But I am glad this is the Day of TRUTH coming out and all of the people finally see what CPS does to normal people. Like the same we have experienced with our cases. I am awaiting for evidence to come out in Courts.

[Frustrated]

The FLDS Case is not looking too good, and more truths coming out...
more minors are classified as adults. 14 yo. girl is NOT pregnant or never had children, CPS wants to access the compound for more evidence and more children...TWICE!!! Appeals Court just gave decisions that CPS has NO RIGHT to remove children from FLDS compound....TRUTH DID PREVAIL here!
If NO evidence found, nothing....children needs to be returned as soon as possible. Family Service plans should be rescinded because it was based on false allegations. CPS are not doing well, and I am glad that the truth is being told to the World. Truth is power and Knowledge s Power too!
CPS will appeal the decision. We all of here has learned more about this FLDS Case more than we ever did before! We know what Rights they had and we didn't have any! But NOW we do! This example is going to be used for other parents to protect their family and protect their family interests. If we had learned anything, it is to get a Lawyer IMMEDIATELY!!! DO NOT WAIT! AND DO NOT WAIT to go to court, file immediately. FLDS filed immediately and got better results. They appealed. and won.
Truth is powerful than any lies...Lies will be exposed for all to know...clear as a bell. it is also written in black and white of all the LIes and it cost the Texas more than 5.2 Million of dollars and they want FLDS to pay for THEIR ERRORS? what a laugh. Texas CPS SHOULD PAY and the State should PAY for their errors. Quick judgements will lead to poor results. It's always true in every case anyways.
Hopefully some day these children will be returned to rightful parents as God promised in the Bible that it will happen and THIS IS THE DAY! God also stated that the TRUTH will be KNOWN and Lies will be exposed clearly for everyone to see. This Case is an evidence of it. All My prayers goes to FLDS and CPS, and the State for doing the right thing. FLDS will make sure that it will not happen, and there will be NO ABUSE. Also the State and CPS will make sure there will be NO ABUSE in the Foster Care System. All Children needs to be protected on both sides.
That we all can agree on with.

[Frustrated]

Appeals Court has ruled
Supreme court has also ruled that CPS has overstepped its boundaries for seizing the children on April 3 at the Zion compound.
Judge Walther must vacate the order, and will agree to return 450 children with their parents WITH Conditions such as parenting classes, they can't leave Texas and must be photographed and identified before releasing the children to the parents. (sound familiar?)
All might be returned on Monday and must be done through June 6th. They can't leave Texas for at least 90 days.

I don't like the conditions but...at least the children will be back with their loving parents. It's what all it matters. All 38 mothers must sign the papers and Judge Walther will sign it. I think the Judge Walter is incomptent because she disagreed with Supreme Court ruling. I think she needs to go back to Law School because she can't understand that she must vacate the order according to Supreme Court ruling. I think she should be disbarred.

I am glad the children will be back with their loving parents. I am not sure about the remaining 4-5 minor girls as I think they will remain in State's custody until it is corrected and investigated. They are attempting to get Warren Jeff's DNA to idenfity the (I believe 4 minor girl brides). Two has been seen in photographs, 12 yo. girl "M", and 15 yo girl ("L"). They are not known and not sure if they were married to Warren Jeffs. Their ages are in dispute. (sound familar?) CPS has been wrong in the past with other minors that are actually adults! If CPS are wrong again, all goes back intact without its strings. I don't like strings because it will make FLDS parents jump thru hoops much harder than any of us here. CPS will harrass them for a long time. They have the right to unannounced visits anytime from 8 am to 8 pm. They will visit the Compound to make sure the children are not there. I guess the service plans are still in effect. Jumping through hoops is unpleasant. It is hard especially that the FLDS mothers has started working. They must go to (ahem) parenting classes. (sound familiar?) such intrusions, and so much interference into their family lives...for probably the next 100 years. I do feel with heavy heart for FLDS. If the Men did abuse the minors from 12-15, prosecute them, and make them leave the compound and bring them to court for Trial and convict them. But don't punish the children for the wrongs that the Men did. Prosecute the Men, and bring Children back to their loving parents. However, I have reservations about the DNA results, I don't think it will show much, just the parentage. possibly will point to Merril Jessop and Warren Jeffs. The only two possible perpetrators. Warren Jeffs is currently in Prison. Merrill isn't. If the others did not do anything wrong, let them go home. The babies has nothing to do with Warren Jeff's actions. If Warren and Merrill did something wrong, prosecute them. Don't prosecute the children, or rather persecute the children and their parents for the wrongs that these MEN did.

It is almost over. but I fear that their persecution won't end this year, but possibly won't end for 100 year's time. That's alot of intrusions in a lifetime's generations. 50+ years already since Short Creek Case in 1953. That's long enough, and it's alot of harrassment. I hope it ends there once they find concrete evidence, then pursue prosecutions. That 's the end of it. The right way, the right thing to do is to have Due Process and have Consitiutional Rights restored to American Citizens like you and me, and FLDS too.