CPS, DCYF , runnin us ragged !!! help

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kelz03103
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CPS, DCYF , runnin us ragged !!! help

Postby kelz03103 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:47 am

on aug 5th , 2 weeks ago, cps and the cops came to my house on an annonomous tip, of me smokin crack, lol I swear you would have to show it to me to know what it is. Anyway they had left a minor little case report open from april 1st, kid had a slight mark under her eye at school. we got the papers , info,, afidavidt on the 14th of aug. summoned to go to court on the 20th, they came to my house on aug 5th and as their OWN afidavidt shows it says " officer saunders at approximately 5:30 pm entered (my name) residence. lovely , no warrant , no imminent circumstances , no immediate danger ect , as I explained to the nice officer , and he then replied ,"it doesn't work that way". so they needed as they told me to asses the safety of my kids , who were brought outside in plain sight , still they entered, and found "the dirty house", which they took pics of , however in their own afidavidt I am sure thing mentioned will NOT be found in the pictures , because they WERE NOT there. such as " dirty dishes throughout the house". so
we haven't been to court yet and so far, they made my kids stay at grandmas house for a week while we cleaned the house so they could return, while visiting grandma they took the kids to a cchild advocacy center to be questioned, they then came home, and dcyf called today the 18th (2 days before court) that they did not have time to interview my oldest child , so I need to bring him in to a center tomorrow , and then I got a call from a Y.W.C.A domestic violence specialist , telling me I need to meet with her because my DCYF worker reffered me , for support, the house was dirty, cleaned up in one day, even though they made us wait a week for the kids , so they could get their interviews in. the afidavidt says the kids said NOTHING , NO reports of any abuse or drugs, so why are we going to court? the house was dirty , and they want to file neglect charges on us. any advice or a lawyer would be great , ty~ K. in New Hampshire

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Postby Marina » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:28 pm

In most states, the court should appoint you an attorney.

Check out this website, and click:

10 Tips when the social worker is at your door.

http://www.fdno.org/downloads/index.html

from this website:

http://www.fdno.org/


4) The same rule applies whenever an officer of the court, be it a social worker, police officer, or deputy sheriff, wants you to do anything against your will. You cannot be made to "report to the office" of the social worker or to "bring your children in for an interview" without being served with a court order. Only a judge or magistrate, presented with evidence that you have committed a crime, can issue an order that you are obligated to obey.


Know your laws and regulations:

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/ ... ies/state/



This is the federal child welfare site, the section on court:

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/userma ... /index.cfm

Here is NH juvenile court site:

http://www.courts.state.nh.us/fdpp/index.htm

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:29 pm

How were you told about court? Were you served with a summons and petition?

I am not an attorney (I do work in the field, however) and do not know NH law BUT, in almost every single case I know of involving court, you must be served properly. This is part of due process-14th Amendment.



If you were served with court papers, read them. Look at the top left corner to see the court in which the case will be heard. A docket number should be in upper right hand corner.

Read the petition itself to be clear as to what you are being charged with.

You most likely will be assigned a court-appointed atty on the day of court. Tell him/ her how you were or were not served. Improper service is one way to kick a case.

In my humble lay advice (as I am not an attorney), I would probably suggest to the court appointed attorney that he/she request an adjournment until you and he/she can talk about the facts regarding the case.

Again, this is my humble opinion. Again, I am not an attorney.

Immediately look for any group with a legal arm (do you homeschool? Are you physically disabled in any way? Do the grandparents belong to AARP -there is a legal arm to the AARP that will assist grandparents. Are you a Veteran? Are yo ua card carrying member of a Native American Tribe?) or Law School clinic that might take up your cause.

Remember to remain extremely calm in court. Dress nicely. Dark clothes if possible. Little makeup, little jewelry. No shorts, no
t shirts.

Treat the judge with upmost respect. Refer to him/her as Judge or sir or ma'am.

Bring any evidence to court that you can lay your hands on.

Take photos of the clean house. If your camera can't date photos then lay a newspaper out with the current date and include that newspaper in the photo to prove when the shot was taken.

Bring a photo album of your happy children and family.

Any positive school records for the children, doctors reports -immunizations, etc------bring them to court.

Begin to enlist official adults in your children's lives to stand by to assist you. Official adults would be mandated reporters-teachers, doctors, speech therapists, police officers, in some cases, clergy.

Start a journal and write down everything that has occured and continues to occur . Even track the negatives-for example:

June 14-CPS calls
June 15-no contact from CPS
June 16-No contact from CPS
etc.


Do not be afraid of court but proceed cautiously. Remain calm and bring as much evidence and paper to court as you can.
Maggie

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kelz03103
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Postby kelz03103 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:56 pm

yes ty Maggie , we were served a summons to appear on the 20th,, 2 days from now, I believe , but I am no lawyer either , could be wishful thinking , that I have enough evidence to dismiss / thow out the entire case. Likely that will not happen. I do inten to tape any contact other then in court , with any persons involved in this case from this point forward, who has contact with me, I am speaking to a lawyer tomorrow morning, reguarding producing my son for the dcyf questioning at the child advocacy center. we'll see how things go , i will be back sometime this week with an update. thank you for your support , it is needed and appreciated. ~Kelz~[/b]

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Postby Marina » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:00 am

I agree that something sounds fishy about the court notice. Call the courthouse and verify the time and complaint.

A court-appointed attorney will plea-bargain and then you cannot appeal the "adjudication." The plea bargain will say your family is in need of services. If you accept their services before court, then I don't know if that is an admission of guilt or not.

The lawyer will do this without your knowledge or consent, in a pretrial conferance which you may not be allowed to attend. Put it in writing to the lawyer that you won't plea bargain. If he does anyway, file an affadavit with the court the next day stating innefective counse.

Just my opinion. Others may have ideas.

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Update

Postby kelz03103 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:22 am

well, i met with the lawyer we can't afford this morning, and I am sort of glad , it is a 2,500 retainer, and I am not sure I agreed with her advice, she agreed with me about my rights , but brushed all of those issues aside, and told me this to bring my child to the advocacy center , agaist my wishes,, reasoning, because if I did not they would use it in court against me tomorrow saying I did NOT cooperate, she told me to NOT start out my ccourt day all about the illegal warrantless search and all of my rights violations , but instead to start and concentrate on, the goal of keeping my kids in MY home, by showing and defending that I have done everything "cooperated" with everything they have asked , above and beyond what I had been asked to do. which is true . she also said i could bring witnesses to this fact , but I don't know about that , since I have read in a matter such as this in a private family court , no one will be allowed in, unless the judge says so, so I figure , I will ask first , before dragging my witnesses down there.
sooo,, here is how the child advocacy center went , it absolutely sucked! they told me tosign a paper , not to my consent ,, supposedly , but to acknowledge that the info from the child interview would be shared with the "TEAM" dcyf , the center , the po po , ect..so I signed it , because when I objected officer , XXXX got snippy with me. so they tell me a worker is coming to "support me" the same Y.W.C.A worker I was referred to yesterday, so they get my son and I am in the waiting room with her . after they tell me , kid disclosed nothing,and then the very "helpful" workers at the c.a.c gave me some nice referrals for child counceling , and "recommended they go , a well child check at there doctors , and my personal favorite a nice family eucation class for me and we were on our merry way, however I asked my son what did they ask you , and low and behold they asked him about his "privates" among other things, I was sooo mad. , reminder; we have NOT been to court yet we go tomorrow. , they intend to pull out every stop with us and continue to run me ragged , and keep me busy, plus lets not forget taking care of the 4 children and keeping the house immaculate. ~kelz~

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quick note

Postby kelz03103 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:36 am

don't move to NH, so far we have been violated left and right, we ,, or I have been referred to a ywca domestic violence councelor,the kids have been referred to counceling, they have questioned my children about sexual chit. referred to the doctors , for well child checks , and family education classes. this is in one week, BEFORE court . get the feeling I am REALLY screwed here? , now I read somewhere you don't HAVE to do anything against your will without a COURT order , I WILL bring this up tomorrow, however , I was told by the lawyer , do what they want , because their loophole is, she did not cooperate, and did not accept "services" meaning,, the kids are unsafe , pull em out of the house. so for now I will play their game , do what they say , but MY way, not theirs. I will begin recording everything:) Unless by some miracle we get out of this whole mess tomorrow, however , the lawyer this morning told me, we have a good case to keep our kids, but not to get it dropped. I disagree, wish us luck!

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Postby MrUboe » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:41 pm

Hello Kelz,
sorry to hear about your situation. What exactly are you going to court tomorrow for. Is this to adjuticate your children are in need of care?
Don't forget to take some pictures of your clean house to bring to court. Bring any documentation you can stating you went to these appointments with your kids. Also remember most of the time in these cases hearsay evidence is allowed, because of this everything you and your kids have said will be twisted all around and used against you. Just be prepared for the insane.
Also if smoking crack was the original claim, did they make you take a drug test?
Try to remember you are in a better situation that alot of people who have dealt with CPS. Your kids are safe right now with the grandparents. You do still have the ability to fight them, when they have your kids you have to jump through all their hoops.
Everything tomorrow comes down to one persons opinion, the judge. Wear your best clothes, try not to get to emotional, I still would not jump on CPS and everything they did wrong. I would go to court with the attitude, yes my house was a bit messy and I corrected that.

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:36 pm

I am a staunch advocate against grandparent visitation / custody as it relates to fit parents. However, if you and the grandparents are in agreement and are fighting this together, I strongly urge the grandparents to contact AARP and to visit this website grandsplace.org.

It might be beneficial for the grandparents to take their own action in this fight. That is, an action separate from the CPS investigation.

I am not up on GPV (grandparent visitation / custody) statutes and case law in NH but again, look into this avenue. Find an attorney skilled in fighting for grandparents.

The GPS should start investigating and possibly filing motions now.
The grandparent lobby is very strong. See if you can tap into it.

Just try to remain as calm as possible.

Stay strong.

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Postby Momoffor » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:02 am

as for the well child check. DO NOT go to their doctor, but take your child to your own doctor and get a clean bill of health for him/them. That way you dont fall victim to 'their doctors', and they cant say you didnt cooperate.

As far as refusing services if it isnt court ordered. This is a very fine line that you are tightroping on. The lawyer is right. They will say you are refusing to remedy the situation, and being uncooperative. If you jump through their hoops, they will keep adding services on and keep you jumping through hoops by continuing to add on more and more crap as you go. (pull the strings and watch the parents dance. Isnt this fun??!!!)

I didnt refuse all services, but I did go to the crappy parenting classes for uneducated (literally) parents. I was the only one there who didnt have my children taken away for beating them. I contacted the case worker and asked her what was going to happen next, she told me she was going to recommend these classes, I called that day and signed up, and started them before I ever even met the caseworker in person and before she could order them. They couldnt say I was uncooperative that way. I let her in my house to inspect (even though the home was never an issue) just to satisfy her.

BUT

I was caught in a catch 22. The investigator took her full 90 days to give results of the investigation (even though everything was dated 2 days after the call) I was declared an immediate danger to my children (10 year old and 9 year old were at home alone for a short period of time during daylight hours) I did tell the ongoing caseworker over the phone that I wasnt doing anything because I had filed an appeal and was waiting for that. I was informed I was an immediate danger to my children and they would be removed if I did refuse services. After many appeals later the immediate danger thing was dropped rather quickly, but by then I had already completed the parenting classes. Guilty until proven innocent.

It is very hard to tell someone to go ahead and refuse the services if they are not court ordered, but you have to do what is in the best interest of YOUR FAMILY. Think rationally and intellectually in the choices that you make because it is YOUR family on the line and in CPS hands.

It would be the same has going to prison for a crime before you ever had a trial, and after the sentence is completed, the trial takes place.

Dont argue too much about refusing services, CPS will use that against you as uncooperative, and the judge will agree. As stated by another poster, bring pics of your house to show its not messy ect.

As far as the illegal search, when my case was going on, I was told to pick my battles. Dont nitpick on stuff that the police did in family court where you are going to be discussing your children. They will say that you are placing blame and not accepting responsibility ect. Take the police matter up with the police ethics committee. I am not saying not to bring it up at all, but dont harp on it and use that as your defense against CPS.


There are many parents that feel like they sold out because CPS dangled their children like carrots and ended up accepting guilt through plea deals ect. I feel like I sold out because I decided not to pursue my final appeal through the courts because my children went to school and were friends with the children of the lawyers that I would be going against. I didnt want my children to have to suffer from the stigmata of being one of 'those' families involved with CPS. In the end, I may not like the result that I got in my quest to fight CPS, but I did the best thing for my kids.

Good luck in court. Remember, think about what is in the best interest of YOUR family because CPS sure as hell wont, and people that are on the outside looking in dont have to suffer the reprecutions of their advice.

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:36 am

"Good luck in court. Remember, think about what is in the best interest of YOUR family because CPS sure as hell wont, and people that are on the outside looking in dont have to suffer the reprecutions of their advice."


This is excellent advice. It is not a one-size fits all type of situation.


Maggie

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update

Postby kelz03103 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:51 pm

hi all, it's aug 22cnd, we went to court on the 20th. we got TWO appointed lawyers , one for me and one for my husband , plus a Gal for the kids , who sat on dcyf's side of the court. it was a preliinary hearing, which we waived pretty much , and it ended up being about do we understand the financial possibilities , and possible outcomes ect..so it was short , when we went out , we set up a structuring meeting , and 2 more court dates , howeverboth of our lawyers informed us that the dcyf is going to change the affidavidt,, they are taking a good chunk of bs out,, because they have found many things in it to be untrue. we should have a copy of the new affidavidt before our meeting.I think they are dropping the whole initial report about me doing crack, and there was also a statement that dad was innapropriately touching, but this claim came from a homeless friend of the original reporter. the judge noted and agreed the house is acceptable , and that there is and has been from day one, NO immediate danger. , ok so
theres no danger , the house is clean , allegations are being removed, yet we still have to go to meetings, court , therapy , domestic violence counceling, and family education classes , oh and the doctors. the kids are home , and we are beyond words thrilled, but on the other hand the nightmare never ends. also they have informed me that by the next hearing they will notify my ex , 2 of the kids dad , he is a violent drug addict , with no stable home, he lives off welfare moms, and can't keep a job or pay child support , but he has a say and has a right to get into our business after 6 years , are you kidding me?ok, so our meeting is on aug 28th, I will pop back on here with an update soon:) ty for the support ~Kelz~

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Postby Trisha G » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:22 pm

Now you get to jump through their hoops and hope the Hell they put you through ends soon. At least it sounds like you have halfway decent court appointed attorneys. Good luck and I hope they leave your lives quickly.

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:49 pm

If the kids are home, much of the battle has been won. However, it is not just going to go away. SIGN NOTHING.
If CPS approaches you with a "plan" or wants your sigature for that or any other thing, politelty state, " I will bring this item to my attorney for his advice and will get back to you after he and I have had a chance to review it together."

That's it. No more. Then go to your lawyer for advice.

Continue to keep a journal. Write something in it every day:

Aug 25 no contact from CPS
Aug 26 CPS called (etc).

Tape record everything.

Hang in there.

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Postby Momoffor » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:27 pm

if they are removing the inital charges for accusations, then what are you having services for still? Neglect? On what grounds is CPS still in your life after there was no danger, house is clean and judge agreed, charges are being dropped but still have court dates and cps involvement.

Doesnt make sense. What are they saying that you are being charged with?

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:23 pm

Mom has a very good point here.

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absolutely

Postby kelz03103 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:25 pm

you do have a good point, the current charge is neglect, the kids are home and found by the judge to be in no immediate danger, cps has legal supervision , i have the definition if needed. the goal reads, maintain a sanitary , appropriate residence,and to work cooperativly with cps and all service providers. next page checked,,,cps shallprovide the following services . 1.services of a child health worker (parent aide).and a family therapist through child and family services IHB program, 2. case management services.3. daycare services if deemed necessary,, *I'm a stay at home mom * the court does find as of the preliminary hearing that there is reasonable cause that the children are neglected. as I said I have in my own research and notes 30 (THIRTY) pages of dicrepencies. lies , false statements ,omissions ect.. plus rights violations , and case laws. so other than the house almost all other "allegations" are crap. some will e removed , havent seen what exactly yet. I don't know what is going to go on at the structuring hearing, we are supposed to come to an out of court agreement I think, however if that means admitting we are guilty with out them PROVING it I will pass. I will update in a few days ty for your continued support ~Kelz~

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Postby Momoffor » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:44 am

I dont know why a family therapist is needed for a messy house. You stated they took pictures that do not uphold their claims ect.

There are several levels of 'messy' 'cluttered' 'dirty' or whatever term you want to use for it. This is very vauge for caseworkers who seem to assume that everyone should have the June Cleaver type household where the house is expected to look like a showroom and still lived in. (Which is NOT possible when you have kids)

You have lived in. Which is what most of us have. Kids stuff here and there ect. But still overall clean.

Cluttered which in my opinion is having too many pictures on the wall, too many knickknacks, too much furniture for the space given, which again my opinion, makes it look messy, when in reality it isnt.

messy Doesnt mean its dirty but way too much stuff is laying around due to someone not putting things back where they go, organizational skills would help! but still 'clean'

dirty Needs a good scrubing and disinfecting.

Filthy filthy and deplorable are the same to me and my lil opnion. Its just downright disgusting. Smells, feces, filthy crusty dishes dirty dishes and clothes all over, trash all over the floor. The kind of thing you see on the news that is typically associated with hoarders and people with mental illnesses that prohibit them from taking care of themselves properly.

When CPS invaded our lives, my husband was in Iraq, I was a stay at home miltary wife and mom of 4 with no family in the area. I was moving with movers coming the next day. I was going through everything we owned and everything that had been in storage, I brought into the house for the movers to get. I literally had crap any and EVERYWHERE in my sorting piles. CPS came in and assumed something was there that in reality was not. (I am actually beyond what one would call a neat freak) They took pictures of everything to show that I had a deplorable home. What they also took were pictures of my pristine snow white living room furniture, kitchen appliances and sparkling clean kitchen. The investigator kept going on about how horrible my house was and if I had an infant they would remove my child that day because it wasnt safe for an infant. (DUH! I dont have infants or toddlers, so there was no need to have it 'proofed' for such) But when the final outcome came out, my house was never mentioned. The investigator told me her supervisor told her not to pursue my house.

Rather long, but what I am saying that no matter what level of 'dirty' I mentioned is all up to opinion of the caseworker. They have pics and their word to say that your house was 'dirty' no matter what the level it is in reality, so therefore, you are guilty of neglect according to them, and their procedures. The fact that the judge agreed is not good for you in saying that it was not dirty.

What they are going to go for, is you are a stay at home mom, yet the house is 'dirty'. There must be something wrong with you for not doing your 'woman' duties and letting the house slip. If you argue that the house was not dirty, they will now say you arent in touch with reality and are in denial.

Dont cave in or resign yourself to them, but the reality is these days a messy, cluttered, dirty, or lived in house is all the same to CPS. it all equals deplorable and the defination of that is child neglect.

They come in, inflate it to something its not, order you services that you dont need, so that when you do buy that extra toy box, or you finish moving and get back to some sense of normal, they can go around and pat themselves on the back for 'saving the day'.

Good luck Kelz. And welcome to the new America. The same one that came after our family while my husband was in Iraq serving it.

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Postby katgotsteve » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:33 am

there was a movie that came out in 1997 called Seduction in a Small Town. melissa gilbert stars as the mother, sarah. i had watched the movie before my incident with CPS and wondered it really happened, after my incident i found out it was true.
things were done that were ridiculous. the quick thing is this, it is about a woman who it turns out lost custody of her children, when she see sarah with her family she becomes envious and wants her life. when the husband doesnt respond, she sets out by convincing other people that sarah is crazy and a child abuser. the dcyf worker falls for it. the worker makes statements along the lines there were crumbs in the chair, the mother seems hostile, etc. even after the 5 other women filed recantations of the charges, pictures were showed and the history of the orginal complaintant was showed the social worker kept trying to keep the kids. even after the judge ordered the children home.
what i learned from my own experience and this movie are a few things, you have to be your own advocate and your child's, the opinion of the social worker hold alot of ground and some have lots of opinions and physical proof can counteract the social worker. another thing that people post on here and the move pointed out is that this social worker had no children, therefore no personal experience about keeping house with children.

i agree with mom about her standards of housekeeping. another personal note about housekeeping, my sister lived by mom's standard in a filthy house, holes in the floor, dog feces and urine, dishes with things growing in them, molding clothing on the floor so think you would think it was carpet. cps never removed the children from her until a meth bust and then two weeks later the children were returned. they were removed again for a nasty house, but i am told removal from a dirty house is not standard, a house can be cleaned and appropriate time should be given to the parents to get the home in order. now, the same should have been said for you.
another thing is, you may have been found guilty of neglect, but not for the reason you think. the letter sent out or lack of letter that is suppose to be sent out is just a standard letter. you need to contact the state office and have your case explained to you.

a personal note on this, i never received a letter about the status of my case. when i contacted the state office and had an investigation done, it stated that abuse was found, but not for the accusations. sexual abuse was found to have happened so my husband was cleared, but failure to supervise was founded against me. when it was explained, i as the woman (mother/gaurdian) should have known that abuse could have been happening and let it happen by not supervising my husband with the children. they went on to explain to me that men are not equipped to take care of female children, it just doesnt look good.
do you get the drift of how things happen here? just be on your toes they can move things around and really attack your character. basically men are not suppose to primary caretakers in the state of georgia. after these statements, i prepared statements from other fathers over a ten year span who had been told these same things. i was prepared to put the system on trail when i went back and they kept postponing until the court order lapsed. i never got the meetings or court updates when i was under the court order, everything just kept getting postponed. hang in there, the bigger the headache the quicker they want to be free of you...

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Postby Momoffor » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:29 am

Katz,

the scary thing about CPS, is the majority of cases are based off of OPINIONS.

In my case, I was found guilty of supervision neglect. I left my 2 sons home alone during daylight hours for brief periods of time. (The legal defintion of latch key kids) both were old enough for that, but because there were 2, one had to assume the role of baby sitter and niether was the recommeded age for babysitting (13).

Even though there is NO LAW that states how old a child can be before they can be left home alone, and it is up to the parents discretion. I was still found guilty on these grounds and the reason is beyond reaching.

I asked the investigator during my appeal hearing what age a child should be to be alone and was told on record that "No child should ever be left alone until they are 18 at ANY time". (which is insane)

To describe this person, she was EXTREMLY overweight, wore very outdated clothes from the early 90's, caked on makeup and wore this huge fake rock on her ring finger as if it were an engagement ring. (The stone was scratched and the gold plate was coming off the band) my OPINION is that she didnt have a man and had trouble getting one and she had no children. Whenever I questioned her "OPINION" she would yell at me and bang her fists on the table. One time she stood up and leaned across the table while yelling at me and banging her fists trying to get in my face, when I did nothing but laugh at her she started screaming and trying to walk out of the appeal. She was told several times by the hearing office to collect herself. Yet, her behavior was not viewed as inappropriate. It is scary that this person is the one that makes a determination if my family is 'normal' or not'.


I asked the ongoing worker the same question and was told that until someone can fight off an intruder, they should never be left alone. This is also insane as there are adults who have been unable to fend off an attacker, so I guess that leaves everyone to live in a bubble commune of perfect world, much like the plot line the movie "The Village" tried to accomplish.

This woman was a frail, timid, meek woman who looked like she was one of the original left over artist hippies. Long prairie skirts, plainly dressed no make up. When she came in my house, and saw my labrador, she started screaming, backed up into a corner and covered her ears with her hands screaming get it away get it away. Meanwhile, the dog had rolled over to get her belly pet, but when the screaming started stood there looking at me confussed as I was to the behavior. Whenever I talked to her I could tell I intimidated her and she would always back away. She couldnt look me in the eye and always talked in this low voice. I suspect if this woman ever had a man he used her as a punching bag. When I spoke to her, I used word that were too big for her and required defination and simple break down for her to understand. Nothing but lies flowed from her mouth. She also appeared to be either anorexic or bulemic. (I am a recovered anorexic so can spot certain tale tell signs that sufferers think no one can tell. I could have been wrong, but the only other options to choose from would be full blown aids, SERIOUS coke or meth addict, or a concentration camp. but that is my OPINION). I do not think that she had any kids, and if she ever did, didnt spend much time around any. She was baby talking to my pre-teen kids who gave her a dirty look and ignored her and couldnt get it through her thick head they didnt want anything to do with her. This woman with no line between reality and fantasy and obviously had issues was supposed to be making sure that my family falls into her opinion of 'normal'.

Social workers should have to go through evals to determine what THEIR issues are and if they are FIT to be teaching FIT to parents.

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kelz03103
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quick note

Postby kelz03103 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:18 pm

ty again to all of you, there may be one item of confusion here , I am Charged with neglect , we have not been to court yet on the charge. I have NOT been found guilty YET, although I am sure i will be . the house was dirty, never denied it . we had laundry on the floor, I have kids so yeah laundry up my azz ALL the time, we had clutter , the stove was dirty floors needed to be washed ,my dog had pissed , I guess this is concidered feces?? I dunno, in the bathroom, probably while I was outside arguing with these people for over an hour, i KNEW if they got in my home, it would not be up to THEIR standards. they pushed their way in anyway , and I would bet 6 witnesses will say I gave permission, which is NOT true. now the house was dirty for 2 reasons , I am lazy , I told the biatch that . she said no one is "that" lazy, I MUST be on drugs , which I have a test to prove I am not, or i must be depressed, no background of that either.the reason is soo simple, no one was lifting a finger around here , I do all of the work 100%, one day I got fckin sick of it , and just decided not to do crap , for a month, if I dont do it , it doesn't get done. however since all of this , now EVERYone shares the housework. all of this has been explained, does it matter , nope ,we're guilty. bbl ~Kelz~

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Postby Trisha G » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:27 pm

Momoffor wrote:Katz,

the scary thing about CPS, is the majority of cases are based off of OPINIONS.

In my case, I was found guilty of supervision neglect. I left my 2 sons home alone during daylight hours for brief periods of time. (The legal defintion of latch key kids) both were old enough for that, but because there were 2, one had to assume the role of baby sitter and niether was the recommeded age for babysitting (13).

Even though there is NO LAW that states how old a child can be before they can be left home alone, and it is up to the parents discretion. I was still found guilty on these grounds and the reason is beyond reaching.

I asked the investigator during my appeal hearing what age a child should be to be alone and was told on record that "No child should ever be left alone until they are 18 at ANY time". (which is insane)

To describe this person, she was EXTREMLY overweight, wore very outdated clothes from the early 90's, caked on makeup and wore this huge fake rock on her ring finger as if it were an engagement ring. (The stone was scratched and the gold plate was coming off the band) my OPINION is that she didnt have a man and had trouble getting one and she had no children. Whenever I questioned her "OPINION" she would yell at me and bang her fists on the table. One time she stood up and leaned across the table while yelling at me and banging her fists trying to get in my face, when I did nothing but laugh at her she started screaming and trying to walk out of the appeal. She was told several times by the hearing office to collect herself. Yet, her behavior was not viewed as inappropriate. It is scary that this person is the one that makes a determination if my family is 'normal' or not'.


I asked the ongoing worker the same question and was told that until someone can fight off an intruder, they should never be left alone. This is also insane as there are adults who have been unable to fend off an attacker, so I guess that leaves everyone to live in a bubble commune of perfect world, much like the plot line the movie "The Village" tried to accomplish.

This woman was a frail, timid, meek woman who looked like she was one of the original left over artist hippies. Long prairie skirts, plainly dressed no make up. When she came in my house, and saw my labrador, she started screaming, backed up into a corner and covered her ears with her hands screaming get it away get it away. Meanwhile, the dog had rolled over to get her belly pet, but when the screaming started stood there looking at me confussed as I was to the behavior. Whenever I talked to her I could tell I intimidated her and she would always back away. She couldnt look me in the eye and always talked in this low voice. I suspect if this woman ever had a man he used her as a punching bag. When I spoke to her, I used word that were too big for her and required defination and simple break down for her to understand. Nothing but lies flowed from her mouth. She also appeared to be either anorexic or bulemic. (I am a recovered anorexic so can spot certain tale tell signs that sufferers think no one can tell. I could have been wrong, but the only other options to choose from would be full blown aids, SERIOUS coke or meth addict, or a concentration camp. but that is my OPINION). I do not think that she had any kids, and if she ever did, didnt spend much time around any. She was baby talking to my pre-teen kids who gave her a dirty look and ignored her and couldnt get it through her thick head they didnt want anything to do with her. This woman with no line between reality and fantasy and obviously had issues was supposed to be making sure that my family falls into her opinion of 'normal'.

Social workers should have to go through evals to determine what THEIR issues are and if they are FIT to be teaching FIT to parents.
You know, I'd almost swear you dealt with the same two our family did.

Momoffor
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Re: quick note

Postby Momoffor » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:52 am

kelz03103 wrote:ty again to all of you, there may be one item of confusion here , I am Charged with neglect , we have not been to court yet on the charge. I have NOT been found guilty YET, although I am sure i will be


You dont have to go to court for CPS to find you guilty. I never went to court at all. Just got the findings in the mail.

Going to court for charges and CPS charges are 2 different animals. One can be found not guilty on criminal charges, but CPS can and will find the same person guilty of the same offense.

Its legal double jeopardy that should be ILLEGAL, but its not.

BTW you were charged and found guilty by CPS the minute they walked into your house and took your kids.

momoffor wrote:What they are going to go for, is you are a stay at home mom, yet the house is 'dirty'. There must be something wrong with you for not doing your 'woman' duties and letting the house slip. If you argue that the house was not dirty, they will now say you arent in touch with reality and are in denial

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:10 am

Mom said, "BTW you were charged and found guilty by CPS the minute they walked into your house and took your kids. "

Once again, I am in full agreement with Mom.

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kelz03103
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another update

Postby kelz03103 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:47 am

I went to the domestic violence specialist and she said she recommended no further services through her, I did not need to see her again and that overall I seem like a happy person.
today august 28th ,08 we had a meeting , we were handed a consent decree, we were told NOT to sign it, we went over the afidavit, the consent decree they handed us was wrong, and said they dcyf had legal custody of the kids, which they do NOT. so that is being fixed. at the top it says (our names) are FOUND to have neglected (our kids) then tell us we have to cooperate withDCYFIHB program,and follow ALL recomendations.and that DCYF shall complete a social studyconsisting ofthe home conditions,family background,and financial assesment,scholl records,mental, and physical and social history of the family, including sibling relationships,... and submit in writing to the court prior tothe dispositional hearing. at the bottom it reads(our names)acknowledgeas required under PETITION OF KERRY D .,144(1999)that the concequencesof consentingto this findingallows the court to issue further ordersthat may modifythis consentagreement and may also effect his/her parental rights over (children) a dispositional hearing will be scheduled within 30 days. At which time a goal directed familycentered planwill be submitted to the court and all parties. lovely is about all Ihave to say, Ihad them DCYF amend several items in their own afidavit, has some things stricken, but not as many as hoped for, the problem I ran into today was things SAID to the worker , true or not , has to be added in the report/ afidavit as it was SAID / told to the worker. my argument was that the things said have been found to be washed- out/ un-substantiated, so why leave them IN, and I was told because it shows HOW the department came into contact with us. so I guess my personal thinking on this is , anyone can say whatever they want , true or not , and it will be part of the record. again thank you all for your support ~Kelz~


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