The story is long, trying to make a long story shorter, Little man was removed first from the home of my daughter and son in law when he was less than a month old within the next 12 months he was moved 4 times, and in the last year moved and removed an additional 4 times, he is now 3, for the past year we have been requesting help from CPS as to ways to help us keep him from running, he has has serious agression issues that started also about a year ago. every visit with cps, we requested help. they directed us to RIP (rapid intervention program) but there never was any openings, finally a month ago we got invited for an orientation, they then told us he wasn't that bad and put us on another 5 month waiting list.
in the meantime, I contacted everyone I knew asking for ideas and assistance in helping him.he is only 3 after all. but very smart, he has learned each locking system we have used on the doors, what he doesn't figure out, he breaks out. we have 7 doors in the house he has destroyed and edging molding that he has damaged, holes in the walls etc..
he wakes up religiously at between 3-4 am and screams and tries to get out of the house.
When the police officer came to my door, the house was still locked up tight, with deadbolts and chains. she informed me she had little man I said he was in the kitchen, we had all sat in my room watching tv, he took his trucks into the livingroom and kitchen and was running them on the floor, he got quiet, I asked him what he was doing, he said watching a movie.. he does that often gets very involved in the movies he watches.. then the knock on the door.
After confronting me, I kept asking how he got out.. I later found he had crawled out a window that was behind a kitchen table that we had 2 computers on, with only a 12 inch gap between them.. who would have ever thought??? alas I was arrested for neglect..
Now CPS is heavy into our backs, I go for my arraignment on fri to set my court date.
I asked the case worker if she was going to tell the judge I had asked repeatedly for help she said no, that it wasn't her fault I let my littleman get out. needless to say I wished I would have known then, what I know now.. but the damage is done. we did not record anything, and have no documentation to prove we requested help, she is now denying we requested it.
We have a 2 fold problem here, My criminal charges, and CPS in our lives thick, we are in fear they are going to try to take the kids away fri when we go down for the family plan meeting.
I am hoping to be prepared to stop them from removing him, as it will only create bigger problems for him emotionally, only last night did someone tell me he was exhibiting all the clinical signs of RAD reactive attachment disorder.. from he constant shifting since birth.
Please help me.. I am very scared, not only for myself, but especially for littleman
Charged with neglect/grandparent of an escape artist
Moderators: family_man, LindaJM
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grandma_in_trouble
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:50 pm
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MaggieC
I would strongly suggest that you retain legal counsel right away. I know it is expensive but you need an attorney.
Where are you located?
Perhaos someone on this board can recommend an attorney who has experience in this.
In the meantime-
make a list of all "official" adults in the child's life-doctor, clergy, nursery school teachers-people who wil lstand with you.
Also, if you haven't already started a journal, start one now retroactively.
Set it up like a calendar. Example:
June 1- approcached CPS asking for assistance i nobtaining xxxxxxxxxx.
June 2-no reply from CPS
June 3-no reply from CPS
etc.
Take pictures of your locks and deadbolts.
Look for a grandparents group that may be able to assist you.
I know it is hard but try to stay focused and strong.
Where are you located?
Perhaos someone on this board can recommend an attorney who has experience in this.
In the meantime-
make a list of all "official" adults in the child's life-doctor, clergy, nursery school teachers-people who wil lstand with you.
Also, if you haven't already started a journal, start one now retroactively.
Set it up like a calendar. Example:
June 1- approcached CPS asking for assistance i nobtaining xxxxxxxxxx.
June 2-no reply from CPS
June 3-no reply from CPS
etc.
Take pictures of your locks and deadbolts.
Look for a grandparents group that may be able to assist you.
I know it is hard but try to stay focused and strong.
Supervision neglect is tricky. I was told that a child should NEVER leave your sight until they are at least 12. Not even in another room!!! (Which is moronic because who follows a 5-12 year old child to the bathroom to watch them do business, if you did cps could say you are a pervert and get your for sexual abuse. Its a catch 22.
I am not putting you on the chopping block, or accusing, but I do have to ask, if your grandson is a known escape artist, why was he on his own in another room?
Do you have alarms on the doors?
We used a bolt put into the very top of the door so the kids couldnt reach, no matter what they moved against the door even if they tried. (They never did)
Use the RIP thing to your advantage, the case worker says you never asked for help, you signed up for rip, got an invitation, RIP has records of you being there and on a list. Do you have documentation from signing up for RIP, the invitation, or a letter from RIP stating that he would be placed back on the waiting list 'because he isnt that bad'? I wouldnt mention RIP to the social worker yet, or even bring it up yet. Get ahold of the docs from there first for your defense to show you ahve tried to get help. Didnt it have a section on the app that asked how you found out about them ect? That way paperwork doesnt 'disappear' if it hasnt already.
I am not putting you on the chopping block, or accusing, but I do have to ask, if your grandson is a known escape artist, why was he on his own in another room?
Do you have alarms on the doors?
We used a bolt put into the very top of the door so the kids couldnt reach, no matter what they moved against the door even if they tried. (They never did)
Use the RIP thing to your advantage, the case worker says you never asked for help, you signed up for rip, got an invitation, RIP has records of you being there and on a list. Do you have documentation from signing up for RIP, the invitation, or a letter from RIP stating that he would be placed back on the waiting list 'because he isnt that bad'? I wouldnt mention RIP to the social worker yet, or even bring it up yet. Get ahold of the docs from there first for your defense to show you ahve tried to get help. Didnt it have a section on the app that asked how you found out about them ect? That way paperwork doesnt 'disappear' if it hasnt already.
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grandma_in_trouble
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:50 pm
we were contacted today that they found an opening for us starting tuesday.. (daughter remarked to me, how convenient it was after I got arrested.)
as for our little escape artist, we had the house not only locked, dead bolted and chained up there is 5 locks on each door and the laundry room door the lock is reversed so it is locked from the other side. along with alarms on each one. he has either figured out all the locks, or ripped them out and down, he has broken all of the doors that leads to the bedrooms, and ripped out screws from the molding panals where we had the spring loaded hook latches attached. The baby safe door knob covers, he just rips them apart. as for his climbing up the doors, he moves the end stands, and has moved a mud bucket full of drywall mud across a carpeted floor to reach the top locks and rips off the alarms off the rooms., he is very quick, all that we do is nothing more than a deterrent for him. it slows him down so we cabn get him before he does escape. but it is only through trial and error and the numbers of item he has to go through.
a little history he has been shifted multiple times, being first removed from his parents when he was only 1 month old. again when he was 4 months old he was shifted from one foster home to another. then many times between both parents. He has extremely strong upper body strength.
What we did not expect was for him to climb onto a kitchen table go between 2 computers that only had a 12 inch space between them and go out a window that was 5 foot from the ground outside. he got out and was over the fence..
as for him being in the other room, he was playing with his trucks, on the hardwood floors, he got quiet, and started watching a movie. he usually gets very engrossed into his movies.
Dhs when asked about what more we could do, the only advice that was given to us was to put him on a 15 ft lead in the front yard so he would learn his boundries. we were told what we couldn't do.. they said I could not put a double keyed deadbolt in, unless I left the key in, (which would have served no purpose, he would have opened it) we got locks for the windows that also had keys, again we were told we could not use them, we got alarms for the windows but he would just tear them off, (not to get out, just to tear them off ).
When the cop got to the house, the house (except the window was still bolted chained alarmed etc..)
right now we are looking into a different type of system a friend told me about.
http://www.lifelinereproductions.com/html/sd08500.html
worse case scenerio I hope the little man gets the much needed help we have been asking for. if not, we will do what we can..
I don't know if anyone is still online, but dhs has a meeting set up for 9 before I go to court at 10:30 any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.
as for our little escape artist, we had the house not only locked, dead bolted and chained up there is 5 locks on each door and the laundry room door the lock is reversed so it is locked from the other side. along with alarms on each one. he has either figured out all the locks, or ripped them out and down, he has broken all of the doors that leads to the bedrooms, and ripped out screws from the molding panals where we had the spring loaded hook latches attached. The baby safe door knob covers, he just rips them apart. as for his climbing up the doors, he moves the end stands, and has moved a mud bucket full of drywall mud across a carpeted floor to reach the top locks and rips off the alarms off the rooms., he is very quick, all that we do is nothing more than a deterrent for him. it slows him down so we cabn get him before he does escape. but it is only through trial and error and the numbers of item he has to go through.
a little history he has been shifted multiple times, being first removed from his parents when he was only 1 month old. again when he was 4 months old he was shifted from one foster home to another. then many times between both parents. He has extremely strong upper body strength.
What we did not expect was for him to climb onto a kitchen table go between 2 computers that only had a 12 inch space between them and go out a window that was 5 foot from the ground outside. he got out and was over the fence..
as for him being in the other room, he was playing with his trucks, on the hardwood floors, he got quiet, and started watching a movie. he usually gets very engrossed into his movies.
Dhs when asked about what more we could do, the only advice that was given to us was to put him on a 15 ft lead in the front yard so he would learn his boundries. we were told what we couldn't do.. they said I could not put a double keyed deadbolt in, unless I left the key in, (which would have served no purpose, he would have opened it) we got locks for the windows that also had keys, again we were told we could not use them, we got alarms for the windows but he would just tear them off, (not to get out, just to tear them off ).
When the cop got to the house, the house (except the window was still bolted chained alarmed etc..)
right now we are looking into a different type of system a friend told me about.
http://www.lifelinereproductions.com/html/sd08500.html
worse case scenerio I hope the little man gets the much needed help we have been asking for. if not, we will do what we can..
I don't know if anyone is still online, but dhs has a meeting set up for 9 before I go to court at 10:30 any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.
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MaggieC
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grandma_in_trouble
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:50 pm
more intensive history..
Little man always had and still does digestive issues, a huge problem as a baby, taken into the hospital several times in the first couple of weeks, CPS made a visit to the home, found the place environmentally unsafe. removed both kids at the time both parents were together at the time. they promised a lot of services to help, father worked 2 jobs, was unable to make visits and do what needed to be done on his part, the removal of the kids was taking a toll on their marriage big time, stress was unbelievable for the 2 kids. 3 months later the kids were moved from that home to yet another there they stayed for aprox 10 months
People are different, some can handle stress better than others, some hide in their work, other just lose it, I guess that is kinda what happened here. the Mother lost it, Dad buried himself into his work, needless to say the trial home visits and temp stays we very stressful, there was a lot of arguing between the adults . CPS tried a 90 day trial visit, stress again was very high, the parents argued more and their need for professional help was obvious,nd things happened that shouldn't have. (I really feel that marriage counseling may have helped them during this time.) Kids again were moved out of the home back into the foster home from before.
Cps sent them both to parenting classes, had drug tests run (both parents were free of drugs or alcohol) the mother was the only one to complete the parenting classes at that time, but she had moved out of the home, she had no place to stay and had no job since the father was the main wage earner.
where I come in,
I received a call from the kids, that they were going to take away the parental rights. I spoke with the father, told him to do whatever he had to do, to get those kids out. They knew I was going to move back, I was in FL at the time.
I moved back, also not having a place or job, but told them to give me 2 weeks and I would be stabilized for my daughter and the kids. They said okay, a week later i got a house and got it full of furniture, went back to cps, and told them I could take the kids, they informed me, they decided to put them into the custody of their father since he had a place and a job.
For me this was fine, as long as the kids were out of the system.
The kids being back home was great the parents worked together, they had a great arrangement setup of 2 days on 2 days off with the kids, the kids adapted to it extremely well they were getting equal time with both parents, and the parents worked together on the kids issues. Little man was not a close child at first didn't like to be held or hugged, over time, this all changed, their attitudes and lives was producing very happy well adjusted kids.
from this point forward, I really want to say. that a lot of things happened, the kids personalities started changing after the kids were removed from his care to the mothers care for a temp basis. The visitation was different and the kids lives were now changed, the consistency of seeing both parents equally was gone.
That is when the running started with little man, at this time he was a little over 2, he started to exhibit some temper issues, and help was requested then as to ideas and help to help the parents cope with it. that is when Rip was first discussed and daycare was started (seems to be a catchall answer for cps)
The father completed what he needed to , in order to have the kids returned to his home.. For various reasons it was very difficult for the parents to get back on the visiting schedule they had previously that worked. By this time the kids were exhibiting more serious behavior issues. Again the kids were removed and placed back with the mother. During this time for various reasons, the visitation was not consistent.
The oldest of the 2 now 5, suffers from serious separation anxiety issues, he father is working hard to help her with those.
Little man now three exhibits extreme anger issues, he runs when he is scared doesn't look to any one person for his comfort or safety, but counts on 2 or more people at the same time. Almost like he needs a group to feel safe. He is a great loving child, but he does have his issues
when he is angry he bangs his head throws his body and grabs anything and everything and throws it, breaks it or destroys it. He must be restrained for his own safety until he calms down
when he is unsure about something he will scream and run and hide, he won't allow anyone near him.
If he hears a loud truck or car, he will fight and kick the doors to get out of the house (we think he is looking to see if it is his dad)
If he wants to go out to play he will figure out a way out of the house.
he runs a lot, like a puppy that has no boundaries set, when the door is opened he will run out, when we are outside, he will be fine playing, then just start running, If in a fenced yard, (yes ours is fenced and locked, ) he will scale the fence, going after him at that time is more difficult that it may seem.
each time he would get out or loose we would try, yet something else, something different. New locks, new ways of deterrents for the doors, after all , he is only 3 right??
My daughter and I live together we have to tag team with the little man, but there is another child in the home that also needs watched, all of the eyes can not only be on the one child.
as for cps today, they didn't add anything more that what we already was working on. I have my own set of issues with that meeting and need some help there.
The judge luckily was very familiar with the kids, the parents and their case, so he suggested a great lawyer, that also was a child psychologist, he said she would help us not only through the charges, but also with ways to help the little man. He said she will be able to help diagnose his issues and problems, and offer us help for them.
My trial is set for Oct 3, at least I feel better knowing that there is help for not only us, but for the little man is not that far down the road.
Little man always had and still does digestive issues, a huge problem as a baby, taken into the hospital several times in the first couple of weeks, CPS made a visit to the home, found the place environmentally unsafe. removed both kids at the time both parents were together at the time. they promised a lot of services to help, father worked 2 jobs, was unable to make visits and do what needed to be done on his part, the removal of the kids was taking a toll on their marriage big time, stress was unbelievable for the 2 kids. 3 months later the kids were moved from that home to yet another there they stayed for aprox 10 months
People are different, some can handle stress better than others, some hide in their work, other just lose it, I guess that is kinda what happened here. the Mother lost it, Dad buried himself into his work, needless to say the trial home visits and temp stays we very stressful, there was a lot of arguing between the adults . CPS tried a 90 day trial visit, stress again was very high, the parents argued more and their need for professional help was obvious,nd things happened that shouldn't have. (I really feel that marriage counseling may have helped them during this time.) Kids again were moved out of the home back into the foster home from before.
Cps sent them both to parenting classes, had drug tests run (both parents were free of drugs or alcohol) the mother was the only one to complete the parenting classes at that time, but she had moved out of the home, she had no place to stay and had no job since the father was the main wage earner.
where I come in,
I received a call from the kids, that they were going to take away the parental rights. I spoke with the father, told him to do whatever he had to do, to get those kids out. They knew I was going to move back, I was in FL at the time.
I moved back, also not having a place or job, but told them to give me 2 weeks and I would be stabilized for my daughter and the kids. They said okay, a week later i got a house and got it full of furniture, went back to cps, and told them I could take the kids, they informed me, they decided to put them into the custody of their father since he had a place and a job.
For me this was fine, as long as the kids were out of the system.
The kids being back home was great the parents worked together, they had a great arrangement setup of 2 days on 2 days off with the kids, the kids adapted to it extremely well they were getting equal time with both parents, and the parents worked together on the kids issues. Little man was not a close child at first didn't like to be held or hugged, over time, this all changed, their attitudes and lives was producing very happy well adjusted kids.
from this point forward, I really want to say. that a lot of things happened, the kids personalities started changing after the kids were removed from his care to the mothers care for a temp basis. The visitation was different and the kids lives were now changed, the consistency of seeing both parents equally was gone.
That is when the running started with little man, at this time he was a little over 2, he started to exhibit some temper issues, and help was requested then as to ideas and help to help the parents cope with it. that is when Rip was first discussed and daycare was started (seems to be a catchall answer for cps)
The father completed what he needed to , in order to have the kids returned to his home.. For various reasons it was very difficult for the parents to get back on the visiting schedule they had previously that worked. By this time the kids were exhibiting more serious behavior issues. Again the kids were removed and placed back with the mother. During this time for various reasons, the visitation was not consistent.
The oldest of the 2 now 5, suffers from serious separation anxiety issues, he father is working hard to help her with those.
Little man now three exhibits extreme anger issues, he runs when he is scared doesn't look to any one person for his comfort or safety, but counts on 2 or more people at the same time. Almost like he needs a group to feel safe. He is a great loving child, but he does have his issues
when he is angry he bangs his head throws his body and grabs anything and everything and throws it, breaks it or destroys it. He must be restrained for his own safety until he calms down
when he is unsure about something he will scream and run and hide, he won't allow anyone near him.
If he hears a loud truck or car, he will fight and kick the doors to get out of the house (we think he is looking to see if it is his dad)
If he wants to go out to play he will figure out a way out of the house.
he runs a lot, like a puppy that has no boundaries set, when the door is opened he will run out, when we are outside, he will be fine playing, then just start running, If in a fenced yard, (yes ours is fenced and locked, ) he will scale the fence, going after him at that time is more difficult that it may seem.
each time he would get out or loose we would try, yet something else, something different. New locks, new ways of deterrents for the doors, after all , he is only 3 right??
My daughter and I live together we have to tag team with the little man, but there is another child in the home that also needs watched, all of the eyes can not only be on the one child.
as for cps today, they didn't add anything more that what we already was working on. I have my own set of issues with that meeting and need some help there.
The judge luckily was very familiar with the kids, the parents and their case, so he suggested a great lawyer, that also was a child psychologist, he said she would help us not only through the charges, but also with ways to help the little man. He said she will be able to help diagnose his issues and problems, and offer us help for them.
My trial is set for Oct 3, at least I feel better knowing that there is help for not only us, but for the little man is not that far down the road.
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grandma_in_trouble
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:50 pm
sorry, yes, they have been with the mother and I for almost a year on and off, being moved back and forth between the parents several times.
his behavior has gradually gotten better, but after each change in his routine or habits, there are major episodes of both the fits, and the running. Then it feels like we are starting all over again. He really needs consistancy, something locked in stone as much as possible for a long period of time, so he can establish his safe zones, his supporting caregivers, and his support unit.
his behavior has gradually gotten better, but after each change in his routine or habits, there are major episodes of both the fits, and the running. Then it feels like we are starting all over again. He really needs consistancy, something locked in stone as much as possible for a long period of time, so he can establish his safe zones, his supporting caregivers, and his support unit.
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katgotsteve
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:47 am
- Location: Georgia
hi grandma - i am so sorry for your ordeals and please do NOT blame yourself for your grandson getting outside - he sounds like a true escape artist and no parent or guardian monitors their children EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY!!! that is impossible!
i remember when my daughter was about 8 months old and she developed SEVERE seperation anxiety with only me and i had to "sneak" out for work in the mornings before she woke up becaus if she saw me leave she would scream and make her father miserable for over an hour...and once i got home - for months she was so overly-attached to me that i had to GO TO THE BATHROOM WITH HER ON MY LAP - and i love my daugher but that little 4-month pass DROVE ME NUTS!!! no parent should have to spen every minute of every day attached to a child - that is UNHEALTHY in my opinion.
it sounds like your grandson has had a VERY rough early childhood and i truly will keep him in my prayers - defnitely has some emotional issues going on - poor little guy. i know from my experince with cps how frustrating it is when they lie and with-hold ONLY THE TRUTHS THAY MIGHT MAKE THEM LOOK BAD - go buy a notebook and think back to the round-about dates that you made all of these phone calls requesting services and RECORD that in writing (as if you HAD been keeping physical record of your requests) and present that to the court - and i will pray that the fucked up legal system chooses to dismiss your case.
if a child is INTENT on doing something - they will wait until they have an opportunity and sieze it - no parent can be with their child every minute of every day!!! be forgiving on yourself
god bless
i remember when my daughter was about 8 months old and she developed SEVERE seperation anxiety with only me and i had to "sneak" out for work in the mornings before she woke up becaus if she saw me leave she would scream and make her father miserable for over an hour...and once i got home - for months she was so overly-attached to me that i had to GO TO THE BATHROOM WITH HER ON MY LAP - and i love my daugher but that little 4-month pass DROVE ME NUTS!!! no parent should have to spen every minute of every day attached to a child - that is UNHEALTHY in my opinion.
it sounds like your grandson has had a VERY rough early childhood and i truly will keep him in my prayers - defnitely has some emotional issues going on - poor little guy. i know from my experince with cps how frustrating it is when they lie and with-hold ONLY THE TRUTHS THAY MIGHT MAKE THEM LOOK BAD - go buy a notebook and think back to the round-about dates that you made all of these phone calls requesting services and RECORD that in writing (as if you HAD been keeping physical record of your requests) and present that to the court - and i will pray that the fucked up legal system chooses to dismiss your case.
if a child is INTENT on doing something - they will wait until they have an opportunity and sieze it - no parent can be with their child every minute of every day!!! be forgiving on yourself
god bless
DWELL IN POSSIBILITY
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grandma_in_trouble
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:50 pm
UPDATE as of Today, no contact with CPS after the "plan date" that was a mess, but I didn't back down they separated the kids from us by way of a locked door, I let them know it was illegal to do so, popped out a bunch of papers and pages I printed from the net, we stood firm and let them know they had no ;legal grounds to remove them.
I got the whole meeting on tape including them admitting we have requested help, as well as witness to some things that were said out side of our room. Something my attorney is checking into for us is the "cohorsion of color" where they locked the door between us and the kids as a means of intimidation.
They finally got our classes started at RIP, it didn't take tyhem but 5 minutes to see Little man has some deep issues. they were using words like broad spectrum, RAD, Autism, asbergers, sevant, and echovalian any way.. until we get a diagnosis, there is little that we can do, they told us, he will get out again, that there is no way to keep him in if he wants out..
we did buy a couple of the perimeter alarms, but they don't work real well.
I got the whole meeting on tape including them admitting we have requested help, as well as witness to some things that were said out side of our room. Something my attorney is checking into for us is the "cohorsion of color" where they locked the door between us and the kids as a means of intimidation.
They finally got our classes started at RIP, it didn't take tyhem but 5 minutes to see Little man has some deep issues. they were using words like broad spectrum, RAD, Autism, asbergers, sevant, and echovalian any way.. until we get a diagnosis, there is little that we can do, they told us, he will get out again, that there is no way to keep him in if he wants out..
we did buy a couple of the perimeter alarms, but they don't work real well.
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