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Socialworker
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:50 pm

I'm new

Postby Socialworker » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:24 pm

Well, this isn't my first post, but I'm new. As my screen names says, I am a social worker. I joined so that I might be able to help answer questions people might have or advice that might help those that are needing some help.

Just FYI, I don't think CPS is evil, just something that needs reform, so keep that in mind when you ask me questions, you might not like everything I have to say, but I can promise I'll do my best to give truthful answers and the best advice I can. Please don't ask/expect answers to questions about where I live/work, as I have already had 1 member of this forum threaten to contact the board in my state. I know that not everyone here is that way, but I won't be posting any of that information here.

Marina
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Postby Marina » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:39 am

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The comments below relate to issues which evolved from a discussion on another thread about posting names of govt. officials on this forum.

http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php ... c&start=25

Post beginning: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:11 am
through Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:35 am


Regarding the subject of the previous thread - posting names of workers on this forum. The names of workers can be placed on the states' gov. websites on consumer complaints and licensing boards, and the links can be posted here, which I have already done.


Based on the following links, it appears that a caseworker alone has the power to substantiate a case against a caretaker. It does not say anything about the supervisor, the courts, due process, or innocent until proven guilty. This gives one person an enormous amount of power. The parent's name can then be put on a national database.

Yet caseworkers are afraid of one parent putting a caseworker's name on a national database without a hearing, or due process. Caseworkers are afraid of being viewed as guilty until proven innocent, but it is OK for them to work it the other way around against parents?

If a caseworker can see it with their own eyes that maltreatment of a child has occurred, then why can't parents see it with their own eyes that they themselves have been maltreated by caseworkers?

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/cps/cpsf.cfm

Child Protective Services: A Guide for Caseworkers.
Chapter Six: Initial Assessment or Investigation
“After interviewing all parties and gathering all relevant information, CPS caseworkers must determine whether maltreatment has occurred and can be 1. substantiated.”


Why wouldn't the same principle apply to parents?
Suppose we had a CPS Guide for Parents:
After being interviewed by caseworkers and all parties and having them gather all relevant information, Parents, as clients, must determine whether maltreatment by caseworkers has occurred.


I have said it before, maltreatment of parent clients is a Crime against Morals and Decency.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC18020000008000000000000
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-369
Abuse and neglect of incapacitated adults

"Incapacitated adult" means any person 18 years or older who is impaired by reason ... or other causes to the extent the adult lacks sufficient understanding or capacity to make, communicate or carry out reasonable decisions concerning his well-being.


A caseworker declares a parent "incapacitated" the moment he/she makes a decision that a parent has demonstrated an "incapacity" to make, communicate or carry out reasonable decisions concerning their "parenting" well-being.

"Neglect" means the knowing and willful failure by a responsible person to provide treatment, care, goods or services which results in injury to the health or endangers the safety of an incapacitated adult.


Neglect includes the knowing and willful failure to protect a client's rights.

"Responsible person" means a person who has responsibility for the care, custody or control of an incapacitated person by operation of law or who has assumed such responsibility voluntarily, by contract or in fact.


The moment that a caseworker substantiates a case, the caseworker becomes the "responsible person" to provide services to the whole family, not just the child.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/federal/pl109_248.cfm

From Title VI, Subtitle C:
1. SEC. 633. NATIONAL REGISTRY OF SUBSTANTIATED CASES OF CHILD ABUSE.


Substantiated cases are put on a national database. "Due process" in this case means guilty until proven innocent.

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Regarding an allegation of maltreatment, Socialworker stated:

“make sure you have a good lawyer.”


Most parents can’t afford a good lawyer, and can’t find a good one even if they can afford one. A lawyer for a federal complaint would cost a fortune, and you may have trouble finding one to represent you unless there is a lot of money involved, such as in a death.

Socialworker stated:

“Civil lawsuits are meant to recoup damages, not to take children away, maybe you're talking about criminal charges and proceedings in family court?”


http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/userma ... ationh.cfm

Federal Child Welfare considers a child protection case a “civil” proceeding.

“Civil Court Intervention
1. Family and juvenile courts have the authority to make decisions about what happens to a child after he or she has been identified as needing the court's protection.”


Socialworker stated:
I just said that many social workers are now focusing on family preservation which is all about keeping the family together...


Even Federal authorities refute this notion:

http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/olab/l ... child.html

The result is a funding stream seriously mismatched to current program needs... funding is driven by process rather than outcomes.


http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/05/fc-financing-ib/

By requiring that the great majority of federal funding for child welfare services be spent only on foster care, the financing system undermines the accomplishment of these goals.


Socialworker stated:

“Children can't just be removed without some sort of proceeding and a type of document.”


I have never heard of a case on this forum, in the news, or anywhere else, where there WAS a pre-removal court hearing and court removal order with the parents present.

Socialworker stated:

“That is irrelevant. You wouldn't lose your job based on that (accusation of child maltreatment), anymore than if I was a coffee barista. True, duties might change, but you wouldn't be fired, at least not until the findings are proven.”


http://www.journalinquirer.com/articles/2008/07/18/connecticut/doc4880a4d1584ac366024811.txt

...”The Department of Children and Families is seeking to fire an employee who’s facing a manslaughter charge in the death of her 7-month-old foster child.”... “Listro was put on unpaid leave immediately following the death.”


Socialworker stated:
“Again, since I am familiar with my rights, I would be pushing my rights as soon as this situation happened.”


I have never seen a parent on this forum, whose child was removed, who knew their rights before the investigation, removal or adjudicatory hearing.

http://www.jbs.org/node/4631

Before I got involved as counsel, Steve Bennett and Heidi Tranberg’s court-appointed counsels told them to waive a temporary custody hearing.

What the lawyers didn’t tell them was that such a waiver means they have no legal means to get the children home for at least a year, if not two. When I came on the case, the damage was done, and every request to return the children is met with a smug, “They waived their hearing. We have custody.” ...
court-appointed lawyers told them to waive their custody hearing, without explaining the consequences. When I later began to represent them, much damage had been done that could not be fixed. ...


Socialworker stated:

“They legally can't hold evidence from you. If you find out they did, that is grounds for a mistrial. That is the case in ANY law proceedings. You must disclose your evidence to the defendant.”


Child welfare employees all the time withhold from the court evidence which is favorable to the parents.

I can find no evidence or examples of a mistrial or Appeal regarding exculpatory evidence, (or the Brady rule from the Supreme Court case of Maryland v. Brady,) in any juvenile proceeding unless it is in a juvenile “criminal” case. Neither can I find any reference to it in a Termination of Parental Rights appeal. The Brady rule on mandatory disclosure of exculpatory evidence applies to the “prosecution” in a “criminal” trial. See wikipedia article on “exculpatory evidence.” A child protection case involves a petitioner and a civil trial,” unless it is bumped up into a criminal case.

Socialworker stated:

“If I wasn't guilty, I wouldn't plea. Simple as that. Doesn't matter what they told me, I wouldn't do it.”

I have never heard of a parent in this situation who even knew that their lawyer was doing this until after it was over.

1. http://www.jbs.org/node/4631

Families Separated by the State
By Gregory A. Hession, J.D.

A lawyer who fights these agencies, rather than simply giving up his clients’ rights (as their previous attorneys often did), is a lonely figure.


Socialworker stated:
“What if I can't ... I can't get a ride, and I get a PO violation...If it's because of transportation, many cities offer free/reduced bus services to those in need. Many private agencies will give free bus passes to people who need it.”


There is no bus service in many counties, only in the cities.

Socialworker stated:
“As far as finances, that's a different problem, there are private agencies that can help with that.”


There is no evidence that a charity can ever undo or even make a dent in the financial devastation caused in a Child Protection case.

Socialworker stated:

“States don't share info. You don't move across statelines and your record follows. Sure, it's on your personal record, but you're not in the CPS system at that point.”


http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/ ... gistry.cfm

“CAPTA does, however, allow State child protective services agencies to retain information on unsubstantiated reports in their casework files to assist in future risk and safety assessment.”


States share this information, parents report this all the time.


Regarding other comments made on civil rights of parents, I have posted relevant links:


Code of Virginia
§ 63.2-1502. Establishment of Child-Protective Services Unit; duties.

“There is created a Child-Protective Services Unit in the Department that shall have the following powers and duties:

6. To establish standards of training and provide educational programs to qualify workers in the field of child-protective services. Such standards of training shall include provisions regarding the legal duties of the workers in order to protect the constitutional and statutory rights and safety of children and families from the initial time of contact during investigation through treatment.”

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... +63.2-1502



U.S. Code
TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 67 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 5106

§ 5106. Grants to States and public or private agencies and organizations

(F) for the training of personnel regarding the legal duties of such personnel and their responsibilities to protect the legal rights of children and families;

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html ... -000-.html



TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 1983

§ 1983. Civil action for deprivation of rights

Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured.”

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... -000-.html


Virginia Foster Care Policy Manual, page 9
“Children and their families have the right to be treated with respect, sensitivity and fairness. They also have the right to know and understand as well as possible, what services are being provided, the purpose of the services, and their rights and obligations.”

http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/divis ... manual.pdf

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katgotsteve
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Location: Georgia

Postby katgotsteve » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:42 am

socialworker
i have read your post. i find they completely unfeeling and meaningless.
you are a college educated woman who may or may not been faced with poverty issues or mental health issues. most people dealing with cps are at or below poverty level, lack education, often have deficiant or borderline deficiant iqs and/or mental issue. alot of these people grew up in abusive or poverty homes.
my point of all this, is a person who has never had children or been in any situation like this needs to be offering services.
i think a "civil" organization does not need to intervene in divorces or child custody cases when in most cases this organization makes the situation worse or doesnt have the time. child abuse and neglect is criminal and should fall to the real experts.

Marina
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Postby Marina » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:47 am

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http://www.hslda.org/courtreport/V18N5/V18N503.asp

Congressional breakthroughs in CAPTA reform
Special Report written by Christopher J. Klicka

...

H.R. 3839 requires that states have provisions in place that address the training of child protective services personnel and their legal duties, which may consist of procedures to inform such personnel of such duties, in order to protect the Constitutional and statutory rights of children and families. [emphasis added]

...

The committee concludes:


For instance, the Committee believes that child protective services personnel should understand that they do not have the authority to demand entry into the family home when investigating the allegation. . . . It is the hope of the Committee that by requiring states to improve the training of social workers in proper and appropriate investigating techniques and providing more education on appropriate reporting of child abuse and neglect by the public that the incidents of aggressive investigating behavior and incidences of false reports of child maltreatment cases will be significantly decreased.

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If a caseworker is supposed to "protect" someone, then a synonym of protect is "defend."

If a caseworker is supposed to "protect" the legal rights of a child, and those rights are violated because the child "voluntarily" had sex with the caseworker, then the child's rights really aren't protected at all. The caseworker "failed to protect" the child.

Same goes for protecting the rights of parents.

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Momoffor
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Re: I'm new

Postby Momoffor » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:16 pm

Socialworker wrote:Well, this isn't my first post, but I'm new. As my screen names says, I am a social worker. I joined so that I might be able to help answer questions people might have or advice that might help those that are needing some help.

you might not like everything I have to say, but I can promise I'll do my best to give truthful answers and the best advice I can. Please don't ask/expect answers to questions about where I live/work, as I have already had 1 member of this forum threaten to contact the board in my state. I know that not everyone here is that way, but I won't be posting any of that information here.


Michael is a social worker in Texas, He has been posting here for years. Granted, he has taken his share of brow beatings over peoples frustration as to what is going on with their cases ect, but he is totally honest as to where he is, and what he does.

I dont understand how, if you are being 'totally honest' and are really trying to 'help' as you put it, but you refuse to say what state you are in because someone threatened to turn you into the board in that state.

If you were being 'totally honest' then you shouldnt have to worry about what is told or reported to the board in your state would you? Because after all, YOU and you alone were the one that decided to work for such an agency that is so honest and does so much good. Why should you be afraid of the same 'honest and good' agency over someones 'allegations"?

If you were doing something wrong or illegal and someone threatened to turn you into the board, I would understand THOSE fears. But as a Socialworker...you know the same line that we were all told ...If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to be worried about

RIGHT???????

eyeq181
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 5:22 am

Postby eyeq181 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:10 pm

I have a few questions for the social worker.

Why is it that caseworkers can just make something up? Why do they do this. And will say it's confirmed with out any kind of questions or investagation? Now it comes to the end of my case which I thought.

I am not poverty or below poverty, and I am educated. My husband and I combined make really good money. My kids had a life, but they stole it just to be mean.

They know that we are going after them when our case is done. We easily have over $200,000 in medical bills for the 1 year that our kids have been in there system. And that is with our federal insurance paying out most of it. Are they keeping the kids because we actually have evidence to sue them? This last bit really pissed me off with my youngest in the hospital. They nearly killed him, because they would listen to the parents. I tried to tell them calmly, and get them in contact with my son pedi but they called him a quack too. They almost removed my sons appendix when it didn't need to be done. As a nurse I know that 106.2 fever is serious, but I also know that it doesn't always lead to the appendix when the child was diagnosed with scar tissue on the colon when he was 2 months old.

My attorney has been chewed out and accused of something that the foster parents did. That is not right. My kids have been through hell. I am just curious as to why they haven't done anything for my 14 year old such as he is very blind with out glasses and they haven't got them for him but they did for my daughter who only needs them to read.

I don't bring these points up to my caseworker because she don't care. She cares more about when my husband got rear ended back in 1992.
Parents spend so much time teaching our kids not to go with strangers or talk to strangers, and no to show your body to strangers. And this is what CPS-DHS is all about.

Socialworker
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Postby Socialworker » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:23 pm

eyeq181 wrote:I have a few questions for the social worker.

Why is it that caseworkers can just make something up? Why do they do this. And will say it's confirmed with out any kind of questions or investagation? Now it comes to the end of my case which I thought.

I am not poverty or below poverty, and I am educated. My husband and I combined make really good money. My kids had a life, but they stole it just to be mean.

They know that we are going after them when our case is done. We easily have over $200,000 in medical bills for the 1 year that our kids have been in there system. And that is with our federal insurance paying out most of it. Are they keeping the kids because we actually have evidence to sue them? This last bit really pissed me off with my youngest in the hospital. They nearly killed him, because they would listen to the parents. I tried to tell them calmly, and get them in contact with my son pedi but they called him a quack too. They almost removed my sons appendix when it didn't need to be done. As a nurse I know that 106.2 fever is serious, but I also know that it doesn't always lead to the appendix when the child was diagnosed with scar tissue on the colon when he was 2 months old.

My attorney has been chewed out and accused of something that the foster parents did. That is not right. My kids have been through hell. I am just curious as to why they haven't done anything for my 14 year old such as he is very blind with out glasses and they haven't got them for him but they did for my daughter who only needs them to read.

I don't bring these points up to my caseworker because she don't care. She cares more about when my husband got rear ended back in 1992.


They're not supposed to make things up. So, in a word, they can't. I understand that it happens, the best thing I can suggest is to document and find out who you need to report your evidence to. Social workers have a licensing board you can contact. They'll review and possibly remove their license. You can also try contacting the NASW (National Association of Social Workers), but as I said in another thread a social worker isn't required to be a member of the NASW so that is a hit or miss.

If your case worker isn't a licensed social worker, I'm not familiar with who you would need to contact, as I don't know how their reporting process works. I would assume you can contact the same licensing board, let them know what you're looking for and they can probably direct you better than I can.

I wish I had answers to your other questions, best case answer is they really believe they were helping. Worst case answer is they weren't, and they were doing it to be horrible. I wish I could give you an explanation on their behavior. All I can say is I'm sorry that happened, and make sure you document everything. As soon as you have the documentation start filing grievances with the licensing board, the case worker's supervisor, and I've read that people suggest writing the newspaper. That can't hurt, just avoid statements that sound like you're going to harm or otherwise promote harm to whomever you're reporting (don't say, I want Ms. X dead for example,) because even though it may feel good, and even though you're justified in wanting some form of retribution, it's going to make things worse.

I am familiar with medical issues sort of, I have a brother that was born with some serious health problems and he also has scarring problems. I can't tell you why the dollar amounts are so much, or if that's their reasoning on keeping the child, the only thing I can recommend in that setting is to ask for detailed medical records and possible problems that could come up as well as treatment plans that could be used. That way if it comes up you'll be able to show a doctor's written professional opinion that (as in the appendix situation) it could be a pre-existing problem.

The next question would be how did the get involved? If it was a phone call from someone else, I would be working as hard as I could to figure out who did it. That way I could begin to work on showing character flaws or other problems that might help show that their were either making things up, misinterpreting the situation, or other motivations for their call. If they phoned anonymously that will be difficult, but you can first start with any details of the complaint to narrow it down to who called, then start with that list.

Socialworker
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Postby Socialworker » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:29 pm

Marina, I'm not going to argue with you. You can either accept what I have said, or don't. Frankly, it's not any skin off my nose. I've been posting information on ways to file complaints and things that can help when you are trying to fight the system while being in it. You seem to want to keep arguing with me because I'm not hopping on a witch hunt. I agree, the system needs work, and I'm willing to give any info I have or search through my resources to provide answers to questions on how to do that. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time arguing with you over the way things are done. I can't change that, what I can do is help people figure out how to help their situations.


As for the other posts, I'm heading out, and I will do what I can to answer those when I get back.
Last edited by Socialworker on Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Socialworker
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:50 pm

Postby Socialworker » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:02 pm

katgotsteve wrote:socialworker
i have read your post. i find they completely unfeeling and meaningless.


That's your opinion, and I'm sorry you feel that way. What may I ask do you think you'll gain from that? If I were unfeeling I wouldn't be here. End of story, or I would have logged in and laughed at the stories, or rolled my eyes. If I didn't think I might be able to help I wouldn't have created an account.

katgotsteve wrote:you are a college educated woman who may or may not been faced with poverty issues or mental health issues. most people dealing with cps are at or below poverty level, lack education, often have deficiant or borderline deficiant iqs and/or mental issue. alot of these people grew up in abusive or poverty homes.
my point of all this, is a person who has never had children or been in any situation like this needs to be offering services.
i think a "civil" organization does not need to intervene in divorces or child custody cases when in most cases this organization makes the situation worse or doesnt have the time. child abuse and neglect is criminal and should fall to the real experts.


I don't recall saying I was a woman, or that I have/haven't fit into any of the categories you claim I know nothing about. Quite the opposite actually. It sounds like you're basically saying that because your point of view is that I've never gone through any of those things (again, incorrect) that I some how am less qualified through my experience and education. That's your opinion, that's fine. That doesn't negate my experiences, network of colleagues, or schooling, nor does it negate that there are insights I might have that can be useful.

Socialworker
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Re: I'm new

Postby Socialworker » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:15 pm

Momoffor wrote:


If you were being 'totally honest' then you shouldnt have to worry about what is told or reported to the board in your state would you? Because after all, YOU and you alone were the one that decided to work for such an agency that is so honest and does so much good. Why should you be afraid of the same 'honest and good' agency over someones 'allegations"?

If you were doing something wrong or illegal and someone threatened to turn you into the board, I would understand THOSE fears. But as a Socialworker...you know the same line that we were all told ...If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to be worried about

RIGHT???????


In theory yes, however if you read the post you would see I was agreeing with the OP of the sticky about why it's not a good idea not to post names and addresses for violent reasons. Not once did I say there shouldn't be a national registry (which someone else has said) agreed it was a good idea not to do that and listed the reasons why. What was said is no different than if I had come into a thread where someone had a different point of view and threatened their children or job. So, I believe that until some of the hostility that is aimed at me dies down I won't be disclosing any of that information. Would you go into a social work forum and do the same thing if you thought you were going to be accused of something? I don't think so.

I'm an "uninterested 3rd party" I have no stake one way or the other in what happens. I didn't lose my kids so I don't have a stake there, I'm not on the other "side" either. I'm accused of not being emotional enough, but in all honesty I don't see how that hurts. I have no emotional stake in either side. If I wanted to just come here and tell people they were wrong I would have done that.

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katgotsteve
Posts: 219
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Location: Georgia

Postby katgotsteve » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:23 am

you are right about me assuming you were female. i will no longer make that assumption.

the main reason i think all those things matter is EMPATHY. a social should be able to empathize with the parents and children. when someone joins this site, they are in most cases at their wits end. the feel they have no where to turn. some of the families on here have issues, that is a fact. some battle drug abuse, some have hoarding issues, some have mental health issues, some have been wrongly and falsely accused, etc.
i find it hard that educated people can not see things. so if you wish to offer a opinion. if this came across your desk how would you handle this.
a woman, has one child, takes in two more children, her nieces. this woman is 32 y/o married for 11 yrs to a man who is 44. the children were placed by your office in this home. for the first 6 months your office visited monthly until permanent custody was granted to the couple. your office had regular visits/calls with the couple becuase the oldest child had made several accusation of sexual abuse against other men (2) and had severe behavior problems. the couple had made several inquiries for help to get mental health treatment for this child and after 4 years had exhausted all help and therapy groups in the area. the couple had also completed fostering classes and considered to be a good canidate by the teacher and placement supervisor. the woman called the caseworker for the oldest child and told her of more allegation of sexual abuse, this time the child stated that she had sex with uncle (the husband of the woman). she wanted it investigated just as she had called about all the other sexual abuse allegation that were proven to false against the other men.
the caseworker agreed and an investigator was assigned and the sheriffs dept investigator was brought in to aid in the investigation.
the child was interviewed first, she stated that she had had sex with her uncle on multiple times. she was 12 and intelligent, but could not give dates or describe certain aspects of the acts nor give number of times or last time incident happened. she did state that the other children had watched it happen. the other children were 11 and 9. after interviewing the first child, the other two were interviewed. they both told what was said and both denied ever see or particpating in any activities like that. both children knew good touch from bad and had a good reputation with teachers and staff at school as being honest and well rounded children. your office decides not to remove any children pending a forensic interview with the child making allegation. the day after incident reported a forensic interview is completed. the child now says that her and her uncle never had sex, but he tried.
your office removes the child making allegation, at the request of the aunt and becuase of policy. your office decided not to remove the other children becuase there is not evidence of wrong doing. a hearing was set for next day. being late in the evening when child was taken there was no time to contact lawyer. (most parents do not have counsel or time to get counsel for the 72 hour hearing.)
at the hearing the judge orders the other children removed and an adjudication hearing set. in the order the judge orders forensic interviews with the two other children and a physcial exam of the other child. the physical exam is postponed becuase the child claims to have been on her period for two weeks. child stated to another child in home that if she kept claiming this they would never know she never had sex because the cant exam her. they finally get an exam and the day before court the other two children are interviewed.
the court hearing is postponed because the state's experts were not there. the evidence consist of a physical exam that was done prior to the child being placed with the couple that showed the child had a stretched hymen at age 6 and a recent physical exam that showed a notched hymen. multiple psychologicals done by your office and the couple (totaling6) that show this child is a pathalogical liar and has severe mental problems, though no one agress on what the disorder is, statements from two other children who were claimed to have been present who say it did not happen, statements by school officials in favor of the couple and showing all the incidents associated with this child and interaction with the family as a whole including the other two children.
at the adjudication, it was found that services were needed for this family becuase "it could have happened, but there was no clear evidence." the father is ordered to leave and the mother retains custody of the children. the father is set to undergo a psychosexual exam before your office can determine services for the family. the psychosexual states that becuase the man wont admit to how much or underestimaes masturbation he maybe obessed with sex. he test as an alcoholic on several of the test and has a 84iq. your office then has the child tested. the psychosexual of the alleged victim show a child who lies and is obessed with sex. she has all the characteristics of a sexually abused child, but there is an underlying undiagnosed mental illness rendering the examiner opinion mute until it is diagnosed. so your office then has the other two children interviewed based on the reccommendation of the examiner. the examiner finds that these children are depressed because of the situation. the biological child of the couple is angry and wants her father back. but because the mother is open with the children and has had the children physcially examined by a doctor and a conversation with doctor was in front of the children stating that the children had notches in their hymen but was medically diagnostic of anything the childrens exam was consider mute due to coaching. the examiner did reccommend parenting classes for caring for a mental ill child and the parents should not be open with the children. that when the kids ask question they parent should not feel free to discuss it with the children and that only time will tell if the other child was telling the truth. after five months of investigation, interviews with extended family members and friends there is no pattern of abuse or past victims.
how would you handle this.

Socialworker
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Postby Socialworker » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:10 pm

Kat, I'm not 100% sure of what you're asking. So, I'll try both ways I'd interpret it. You're talking about a family who either was becoming a foster family, or at the very least completed the process, correct?


As a social worker, I wouldn't have removed the father from the home once it became apparent that there were issues with the child and that based on previous incidents, statements from the other kids, and the professional opinion of doctors/teachers/etc., it sounds like the child DOES need some kind of help. It is possible I would have wanted an emergency removal while things were sorted out, but as soon as it became apparent the allegation was false, I wouldn't have continued with the removal.

However, her problems sound physiological and not sexual, at least not with the current situation. I would have asked that the child be put in another home if possible, perhaps with a female relative that isn't married. I'm not saying this because I don't think women can't be abusers, but since her accusations are always geared at men (from what I understand) it would be the safest option for any adults involved. Depending on what state I was in, there are even voluntary live in facilities where a guardian can send a child so that they can get the extensive therapy needed, who may have outreach therapy (which is like "outpatient.")

I wish I could tell you that ordeal with the husband would be handled differently, but I'm afraid this sounds like a CYA situation. In order to prevent a oversight, he's being forced into therapy. That doesn't make it right, but I'm providing a possible reason for it. Would I make the same call? I don't know. There are a lot of decisions that are effected by your "gut" and without meeting the parents I can't give you a definite answer there. Though, given that you say they have passed through all the foster care applications, home visits, and such (which in my state are very thorough and extensive) I would probably lean toward the "no" side on that. Also, for all I know it's the agency's policy to do this. It could have been something that the case worker had no say on.

I would disagree and agree with being open with the children. On one hand, but being open and honest with them you are preventing them from being scared of the unknown, letting them know the seriousness of the situation, showing they aren't to blame, and explaining the need for the doctor's visits. On the other hand, you are explaining a very adult problem to kids, it's causing stress (not that there wouldn't be without the explanation) and it can cause them to act on the child in question because they will blame that child. I would not use that reason alone for preventing the husband from being in the home, nor would I use it for forcing any action with the family. That, I believe, is a parenting call. As a parent you have to choose what to do, it shouldn't be used against you. Especially when it is already been said the sexual abuse allegations were false.

I don't think the parenting classes for caring for a mentally ill child is a bad idea. Especially if the child is still in the home. I would say that though to anyone who has a mentally ill child. There are some coping tactics that can be learned as well as other supports/skills that can be learned in those classes. I'm not sure what kind of class you took, I hope it was beneficial in that area. I have worked with kids who have mental and physical disabilities and their parents frequently attend classes like that voluntarily, and will call agencies to ask about them because they get some kind of use out of them.

I'm unclear if the niece was placed as a foster child or as a family member who needed a place to stay. If she was placed as a foster child, I'm afraid sometimes you get kids who (for lack of a better word) are broken, and need to be fixed somehow. It's a horrible thing to think you're opening your home to a child and they would lie. That's why you have to trust that the case workers involved have done their research, interviews, and know what problems are involved. You also have to trust that they "have your back" when something like this happens. In this case, they didn't, and I would be mad.

The first thing many social workers tell you about foster parents is that "they're your gold, do what ever they need you to help with." A person I went to college with actually went over to drive a foster mom do errands one day because her car was in the shop, she didn't have to but a good case worker/SW will do whatever is needed when you have people who are willing to care for kids that aren't theirs. You shouldn't have been put in that situation blindly. You should have known what might happen, and you should have been prepped by case workers for the possible problems. If the child had been in the system previously (you said there was another allegation) someone somewhere knew what the problems might be. You should have had the option to either accept those problems or not, and you should have had a supportive case worker who, at the 1st word of an allegation, would have said, "No way that happened here." You might still have had to go through interviews, but it wouldn't have gone far as soon as it was determined she was lying.

I can't tell you what I would do about the old exam being used in a court hearing, honestly I don't see how that could happen. It doesn't make sense, not that I don't believe you, the idea of that breaks my head. That would be like me breaking an arm, suing for damages, and instead of bringing current medical records, bringing records from a leg I broke 2 years ago. It wouldn't have proven she was abused, if ANYTHING it would show she wasn't! The only suggestion I can make with this is to talk with your lawyer about it. Would I accept that as "proof?" No. Not only that, but I wouldn't have accepted the "period for 2 weeks" excuse. If the child really were on her period that long, she would need medical attention anyway, so I'm not sure why they didn't force the issue on that.

Now, if you're asking me what I might do as a parent, I can't say. I have been known to have a healthy temper, so I would probably refuse to house the child anymore. I know that sounds selfish, but as soon as I had seen the opinion of the doctors and other interviewers that the whole thing was a lie, I would have been packing up stuff. I know how that sounds, but I would view it as a "her vs. my family" situation and I would have found alternative housing, if there was none, I'd be on the phone telling the case worker that I wanted her out. I would also make sure that I or any of my children where left alone with her. Either another adult or recording device would be present whenever possible. That way if there were more allegations I would have evidence of it being a lie.

I don't know if that was much help, that's just my opinion. Also, just to address the empathy statement. Empathy is saying I understand why you feel bad. Sympathy is feeling bad for a person. If I didn't empathize, I wouldn't have created an account. It's the internet, facial expressions, movements, touches, tones, those are all things that can't be expressed well in written word.

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katgotsteve
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Postby katgotsteve » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:04 am

i will tell you what actually happened.
we were certified foster parents for a few weeks. the child in question was with us for 4 years prior to the certification, after the allegations we did not take her back. the workers tried to find her a place with a single mom becuase the family on our (maternal side)side knew her problems and did not want to take her, the paternal side had just recently had another allegation of sexual abuse grandfather to another grandchild and did not qualify (just a note her father has been in prison since she was 4 for child molestation). she was move 5 times in two weeks until she was placed in a group home geared towards mentally impaired children. this placement last a year until my mom who lives in another state was able to get her. the reasoning is becuase my mom is widowed and doesnt have a man in her life, so it would be a good place.
my husband was not forced into counseling becuase in order to complete counseling he would have to admit a problem and that he did it. my lawyer and i presented a case to judge with case law and documentation from a therapist stating this. so other than the psychosexaul exam there was no counseling.
as far as parenting for a mental ill child, the closest classes are 3.5 hours away, so they were out of question and since we have a clean house, no babies at the time and no allegation of neglect or mistreatment, regular parent classes i felt it was something we did not need. i did ask for family counseling, but at the time i asked budgetting was cut and was told that they perferred to use the budget on families that needed it. i did place my daughter in counceling for anger issues, her main issue in counseling was the fact that we did not tell her things anymore. i had to explain to her that the judge and dfacs has asked us not, it wasnt that i didnt want to, but i couldnt. the counselor who had been the niece's counselor decided after two session that she was in situational depression and that once the state figured out everything she would pull through and he felt she did not need therapy. by this time we were 9 months into the ordeal with no end in sight and no court hearing becuase they kept postponing. dfacs then decided that family counseling was an option and we them had three sessions. in aug, i asked about the court order. we were set to go to court on aug 15, the court order lapse on aug 28. i showed up for court and was told they had not decided if they even wanted to go to court. i informed them they had 13 days to decide and if they did not renew my husband was moving back in. i had found out i was pregnant and stress was not helping my high risk pregnancy. on the 28th, i called and told them he was moving back in on the 29th that if they had a problem they could go back to court, but i knew that they would have to file a new motion and show that there was proof of some wrong doing. which i knew they did not have becuase of investigation. he moved back in and the case was closed sept 2.

i was angry at the child, you were right in that assumption. it has been two years now since this happened. the child has now been with my mom for a year. she is counseling which is readily available in the area my lives in, we did not have the options in rural georgia that she has in rhode island. the child is 14 now, stil have all the same issues as before. in counseling now, she denies even making allegations about any one, including my husband. she still has her obessive behaviors, she has now fixed her eyes on my brother's boyfriend as her next boyfriend. she talks about sex to him and what she wants to do to him. my mom is a passive person, so she just thinks she is being curious. for example, she will stand in the hallway and crack the door to his bedroom to watch him undress. she has been diagnosed as bipolar, but many doctors have talked about asperger's syndrome and/or reactive attachment disorder. some counselors, even the ones i had, told me she may have multiple diagnosis before the decide one esp. based on the history of her paternal side.

the agency did not back us up. the worker we had worked with for so long and still work with for my other niece, would not comment on anything. it is this way in alot of areas, sexual abuse, unless caught right after, is on of those issue that can not be cleared up. dfacs is force to believe the child not matter what (that came right out of the mouths of all caseworkers involved and supervisors). after months of research, i found and was told it was easier to place a child who has been sexually abused than a child who has made false allegations. in all honesty, would you take in a child who had accused and ruined the lives of multiple men.

i have learned my rights as a parent and i have learned never to trust anyone. i have become angrier and unable to trust outsiders. i also lost a high paying job that i had had for over 5 years. no one wants to work with someone who has been ordered by the judge to limit travel and attend all these appoints and court hearing (at the beginning esp.), when your job is travel and takes alot of time even when you work from home. the one good thing that came out of this, is after 13 years and being told i could not get pregnant, i had a healthy baby girl.

there is alot of reform that needs to be done and social workers need more training. when you come on here and say things about credit counseling or asking for hand outs, that really upsets me. i worked forever, i made good money, i dont have credit cards or debt like that and our area doesnt offer many programs that help with electric bill and you have to qualify for those and it is given to people who have a higher need factor. i have a motgage, utilities and vehicle payments. that is it and before involvement by a government agency, i was able to make those payments and enjoy my life. i find myself sometimes second guessing my parenting abilities just becuase of the intervention.

a note i want to add, the agency that told me i was too open with my children, gave counseling to another parent and told her she needed to be more open with her child. you are right to say it is up to the parent, but when you get someone in your life like this you dont get a choice.

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Postby Socialworker » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:25 am

Kat,
First of all all of that sucks. It really does, I don't blame you for being angry at the child. I can't imagine anyone on the planet who wouldn't be. It sounds like she has severe enough problems she really should be in a live in facility with an extensive treatment plan, has anyone warned her "boyfriend" that he needs to be careful not to be alone with her? From what you've said, she hasn't changed and it could be possible he'll be her next accused.
I hope your pregnancy went well.

All of the things that you said I've said that make you angry like the credit counseling places, those were in response to a thread where that was a problem. I believe it was something about money being tight because of lawyer fees. I also suggested coupon places I use (as did another poster.) I know that getting involved with another state agency isn't ideal, that's why I suggested private resources. They don't have to report who gets aid the way places who are publicly funded are, therefor you don't have to worry about CPS finding out you're on aid if that is a fear for you (general you.) The credit counseling program, I've even been through. It's not asking for a hand out, they don't give you money they don't give you counseling that "claim" they make on tv is hooey. I suppose some places do, but the ones I'm familiar with really are nothing more than companies that call credit card companies to lower your payment and interest, you don't even talk with them again after the 1st call unless there is a problem.

I'm sorry those suggestions make you angry, but they might not make someone else angry, and could be beneficial to someone else who needed the information. Part of it is that I don't see those programs as handouts, anymore than I see unemployment as a hand out. Those programs are paid by taxes which we pay, or donations which we make. So while I don't have the view of "It's my money, I want it now" I don't see it is a handout.

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katgotsteve
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Postby katgotsteve » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:26 pm

i just want you to understand where most people on here come from. some have no or little education, some can barely read or write, some have mental health issue, etc. i was able to defend myself, build my case and afford a good attorney. the majority of people involved in cps are not that lucky. i was a note taker and kept records of behavior, plus i had the school and therapist to back up all my notes. not eveyone is that lucky.

please just think about it when you address people. we are a proud bunch and feel helpless to be left in total financial ruin just to fight for our rights that GOD gave us, being parents. alot of people have been lied about and hurt by social workers. like someone said, michael comes on here from texas, he offers alot of help and does get alot of grief. i would also like to add, life did not give us an instruction manual or policy guidelines in raising our children, how can any organization write a manual to aid people?

Momoffor
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Re: I'm new

Postby Momoffor » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:21 pm

Socialworker wrote:.....however if you read the post you would see I was agreeing with the OP of the sticky about why it's not a good idea not to post names and addresses for violent reasons


I did read the post ...did you?? Do you even remember what you wrote? Obviously not! Oh here, let me help you out!

Socialworker wrote: I have already had 1 member of this forum threaten to contact the board in my state. I know that not everyone here is that way, but I won't be posting any of that information here.


OH NOS!! No where in that do I see that you were agreeing with the 'OP" about violence! I DO however, see comments about someone 'threatening' to exercise their rights as a taxpayer to turn you in to the board.

Typical social worker fashion, it went from someone threatened to turn you into the board in your state to something way off track and talking about violence. Someone needs an EVAL!!! Maybe some drug testing and rehab classes just for safe measure!

Perhaps you do want to help people here, I dont know nor do I care. I honestly think you are doing this for your own sick amusement because I havent seen on single thing you have said so for on this thread that even remotly comes close to help. I see you attempting to belittle people and twist things around not to mention stirring up a lot of garbage.

Perhaps me pointing just your comments in this forum of how far off each of them are will show you why people are so angry at caseworkers.

Makes me wonder how you do your job actually. If you do it on a chat forum ..what do you do when there are no records other than your word against theirs. Nevermind, based on your profession and the agency you work for, plus what I just pointed out, I dont even have to wonder.

I really dont care where you are. I found it ironic, not to mention humorous, that you are afraid of 'allegations' when you work for the agency that you do.

AGAIN: you know the same line that we were all told ...If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to be worried about

Or are you 'not going to argue with me anymore' just like Marina?

Socialworker wrote:.....I'm an "uninterested 3rd party" I have no stake one way or the other in what happens. I didn't lose my kids so I don't have a stake there, I'm not on the other "side" either. I'm accused of not being emotional enough, but in all honesty I don't see how that hurts. I have no emotional stake in either side.


What are you then? The receptionist that answers the phone? Maybe you are a school social worker that is always poking around into kids families business trying to make things 'better' when nothing was wrong to begin with?

Go read some of the stories here ...Go read about the parents that were accused of killing their own daughter and what they went through at the hands of CPS. Then come and say how you have EMPATHY .....Maybe your empathy can suggest some coupon sites to them because they have nothing left from just trying to defend themselves and get their remaining children back. Maybe you can have empathy for how many times they were falsely arrested and how many times their names appeared in the paper for a crime they didnt committ while you are at it. NEVERMIND, you are a disinterested 3rd party.

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Postby Socialworker » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:35 pm

Momoffor,
Since you post is nothing more than an attack this is all I will reply. Apparently you didn't read my posts. This was part of my 1st post.
1. No matter if you're guilty or not of what you are accused, threatening, encouraging, or even implying violence by posting names and addresses of those you feel are slighting you will not help your case. Not only will it make it look like you're guilty of what you're accused of, it will also make you more likely to look worse.


I then listed other reasons why it's not a good idea to post names and things for violent reasons. That is all I'm going to say to you. You're angry and I get that, but I'm not the one you should be angry at.

Socialworker
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Postby Socialworker » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:04 pm

katgotsteve wrote:i just want you to understand where most people on here come from. some have no or little education, some can barely read or write, some have mental health issue, etc. i was able to defend myself, build my case and afford a good attorney. the majority of people involved in cps are not that lucky. i was a note taker and kept records of behavior, plus i had the school and therapist to back up all my notes. not eveyone is that lucky.

I believe I do understand... People are pissed. They're hurt. Not only are they fearful of losing their kids, but they're fearful of losing kids they MAY have. They're victimized and want justice. They're stuck in a label that doesn't belong to them, and they have no way out of it. They're practically screaming at the top of their lungs but no one is listening. Is that all pretty accurate? That's why I've been upfront about my title, how would it help to not tell I was a social worker, then in a few months it came out? Would that not have made things worse? I would have even disclosed what I do and where if I wasn't met with so much hostility. Even if I do understand it. I've been told, "if you have nothing to hide, why not be reported, that's what YOU tell US." I've never said that to anyone. Much less anyone in a post.


please just think about it when you address people. we are a proud bunch and feel helpless to be left in total financial ruin just to fight for our rights that GOD gave us, being parents. alot of people have been lied about and hurt by social workers.

I don't understand what you mean when you ask me to think about that when I address people. I haven't attacked anyone, or commented on how they were wrong. I've been asked "why" a lot. I've been trying to answer that why to the best of my ability. I truly do wish I could say why bad things happen to people who don't deserve them, but I can't.

I've offered information based on what I know from experiences, and DAs that I talk with, I have tried to purposefully stay out of topics that are more rants and asking for support, because honestly I know that there isn't much I can say in those situations. In a lot of those types of threads, it's less about information and more about wanting to connect with someone with the same experience. That makes sense, and I've tried to respect that.

I also knew when I signed on that I would have to work hard to get around the mistrust, which is why I have tried to be as to the point as I can. I have tried to emphasize that I'm not the enemy, and tried to show this by giving information I have either with ideas on how to get help or ways to make reports.

like someone said, michael comes on here from texas, he offers alot of help and does get alot of grief. i would also like to add, life did not give us an instruction manual or policy guidelines in raising our children, how can any organization write a manual to aid people?


I understand that, I can and will take grief, I have a thick skin, as I have already told a few people who've PMed me. What I won't take is people threatening me just because they don't like the tone or information I have. Can you understand that? (I'm not saying you did this, just in general)

As for the manual. Honestly? Hell if I know. If there was a manual like that when I was a kid my Mom would have been in a heap of trouble. Anything could be twisted to be wrong with that manual. I could say that anyone who owns animals would be guilty of a violation if I spun it enough. It leaves too much up to judgment calls. Which opens the door to problems with power. That's why licensed social workers are supposed to have supervision, to prevent a case worker from deciding non- objectively or from just flat out lying.

trappedinwreakage
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Postby trappedinwreakage » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:03 am

I will admit that it takes guts to come here without a mask and offer advice to those in trouble from the other side of the fence. I will give you credit for that.

But it seems to me someone from inside wishing to help, would find others from inside that openly admit to the problems and end results, that would get together and approach whatever the hell governmental agencies are at the top of this destructive system and get it changed YESTERDAY!

The whole damn thing just keeps trudging forward like a run away blacktop roller crushing familys and individual personal lives by the boatload and turning otherwise decent people into criminals.

Some may say most of the people caught under this steam roller are low education or low IQ. I question this, many are intellegent people with ill or manipulative children that learn about the little CPS trick from other kids, in order to gain their "freedom"... that is so long as Mom and Dad are still paying thier way... which CPS, SS, and the family courts will make damn sure of.... garnished wages anybody? Right straight on the tele to our employers... LIKE WOW ! I say you only see what appears to be mostly low ed. or IQ people here because most others that are caught in this wacked out "system" are as I was, totally ashamed. And that is what the entire thing is all about, to make people ashamed. Yep there I was totally ashamed that I had ever had a kid or frankly ever breathed a damn breath of air... what the hell were my parents ever thinking ?

The entire thing was such a complete insult to my intelligence I felt like putting my head in a meat grinder just to shut it off and that has not changed in 3.8 years ! It appears that is not likely to change for the duration of my life. AND I did break a "law"... I was totally guilty of applying swift, restrained and decisive disipline to my hysterical daughter, and fully admitted it from "day one" the first day of the rest of my new life. So the answer apparently was to destroy my good name and rip the family apart, that is unless I was willing to crawl across the floor to appease those that make money off this "system". However I know the damage was done the second they awared those teenagers the victory which too occured on "day one".

We all dance and pay the piper to the tune of the lowest common denominator, turn the page and suddenly you too are a totally disfunctional family, looks good in the eyes of staticians whose incomes depend on "people that need help"

Final scenerio ? : IT WILL NEVER CHANGE !
Last edited by trappedinwreakage on Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:38 am

Bravo!

grandma_in_trouble
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Postby grandma_in_trouble » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:29 pm

SocialWorker,

I for one am caught in a system that has already been hit by lawsuits for needed reforms, I understand all the above feelings and situations, and am myself caught in a system that seriously needs someone overlooking what they are and should be doing.

But... thanks to this website and many others, I was able to find out what MY rights are. individually as to how they pertain to my state and situation. It wasn't easy for me, but I am not one of the lower class, uneducated, powerless group of people that is caught in a system, where the system feels they have the power to do whatever they want whenever they want.

personally I would love to see more social workers that care about the people, and their situations, that could offer help and resources that they themselves can take back to their own caseworkers, and have the knowledge to get the proper help. With that sometimes it means compromising your anonymity.

But if you really want to help, to help these people make the needed changes in their own system, give them the knowledge they need to help their system do what is right, if their system is wrong, then their system is wrong, and needs to get fixed, at the very least educated and reminded what their real purpose is.

A parent(in my case grandparent) who is out there struggling to help their kids, /grandkids by either working or trying to get the resources needed for family change, should be offered the many services that is available through the child protective system, without fear of losing their children.

arming us with knowledge is a way to reach out to the masses here. for example.. The admins and moderators of this site has done great things with many of their articles, although difficult for the average home to follow the info is there. It would offer much more credence and validity, if those same articles were written by a social worker who isn't afraid of placing their name on them for credence., who really does want the best thing for families and most importantly for the children involved.

examples of things that a great article could include is :

1. links to individual state laws regarding the definitions of what really does constitute child abuse/neglect and the various levels and structures.

2. Parental rights of each state

3. each state child protective service has their own website, with the training and mission manuals on their site. Which also includes the parents rights.

4. tactics used by Protective services that is not legal, which should be understood and never condoned,

5. where to go for help, whether it is their local court system, or an organization that can help them with their various complaints.

6. some of the areas where reform is needed and what some states are doing to facilitate those reforms, and what we can do to help facilitate those that hasn't made the reforms yet.

7. ways to deal directly with the caseworkers that are on their power trips of they have full control and you must be afraid. Those who use illegal, mental, and physical tactics to get people to do things their way when people have other options.


There are many many ways you really can help, some caseworkers, I spoke with really did get into social work for all the right reasons, others, forgot why they got into it, others yet, are in fear themselves, of either losing their job or facing getting blacklisted by their own agency.

But the ones that really do in their heart believe in what they do, and do it for the family and the children, who really do want to make a difference, is willing to risk it all, because in the end, their own personal mission is accomplished.

I spoke with a gentleman, who got into social work for the right reasons, went against his center because he believed in his heart that some people just needs help, education and assistance, that pulling the children should not be used as an option, or a tool against the family to get the help the family needed.

He ran into an issue where the center would not financially help a low income family with family counseling unless they had custody of the children. he fought the center, he armed the family with the knowledge they needed, and he personally financially helped the family. That family still has their problems, but for the most part, the gentleman felt very good about what he did and why, he feels that his assistance with this family kept 2 kids from entering the juvenile system, one from committing suicide and a family that now works together on their issues. The kids were never removed from the home.

He pointed me to sections of our state child protective systems manuals and the case worker manual and showed me sections in there that actually state that removing the children from the home SHOULD be LAST resort, where the case workers responsibilities include helping the family with various resources, and making those resources, not only available, but where they could be afforded, if not through their system, but through outside means. He spoke highly of the reforms, he would love to see the protective services become what it should be, not what it is.

Let your actions here, speak for themselves, show the people here how much you really do care about them as people, as individuals as families that are being torn apart, with the same drive and motivation that got you into social work to begin with.

trappedinwreakage
Posts: 72
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Postby trappedinwreakage » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:11 pm

The laws need to be changed, yet the lobby for even stricter laws is going full swing and they will succeed, childless, cry babies no doubt... talking the talk and never walking the walk. The government has no business inside our house, unless we are known to have a history of drug abuse, hurting or not taking care of our kids. Christ they are all running around acting as if all parents are child beaters or care less about their kids, just gunning for the opportunity to jump in the middle of any ol family and create chaos. Makes you wonder how the human race survived all the centuries without these "superheros for a day".

I couldnt count all the people I have had conversations with that said their Mom and or Dad handed them their butt a few times and were darn thankful for it, it taught them respect and the difference between right and wrong. "Take a time out".... I'll give you a time out, stupid psycho babble crap. Then we sit and wonder why kids have no respect today, why they are destructive and violent, why everything is such a GIANT drama all the time for them, why our schools are nut houses and the teachers have no control and live in fear of the kids. Now parents need to live in fear of their kids, the lunatics are running the nut house, that is what is going on.

I have also had conversations with other adults regarding the subject that have said flat out... "children have no rights, they have the right to behave and do what they are told". But no, we have this bleeding heart, everybodys a victim society, that has decided children have all the rights and parents have NONE !

My father has been gone for 12 years and my Mom since 1970, each and everyday that passes I love them more, they made me strong, they made me think about consequences, they gave me what it took to go through life fearless, kind, respectful and thoughtful.... those people at CPS and "family court" took all that away in one clean sweep, I was 47 years old, with a reputation and strong will second to none, a excellent relationship with my daughter, probably too close, I should have been just a father rather than more like a best friend as well, that girl was not the slightest bit afraid of me.... ALL gone in one clean swipe, 3 months of playing games with the structure of my family and questioning my character. Using that strong will I once had against me. Oh didnt those manipulaters, those childless women hate the kind of man I was, who did I think I was ? Well when I grew up men were to be men, I was a father and had a job to do and I took it damn seriously ! Long before they were done with their three months of psychological torture I hated the fact that I became a father. The only thing that kept me going was somehow I still was a father and I had a daughter in BIG trouble, I needed to be around, limp as I now was, because the alternative would have destroyed my daughter and my wife, so I continue through life like the limp zombie they want men to be.

I couldnt tell the exact amount of parents around here in the past 5 years that had to let their teenage daughters go, do as they please because of this retarded system, Each and every one of them became a basket case, under achievers or pregnant. Living as they damn well pleased from the time they were 14-15 or 16.

Yep, really raising the bar of parenting... that CPS

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:46 pm

I am also amazed at how childless CPS workers, often without a license or even an appropriate degree (or any degree) many of whom are nearly babies themselves in the twenty something group believe they are capable of telling fit parents how to parent.

Equally, I feel sorry for many of these young CPS workers who may have gone into the field to help and are most likely finding that their roles are usually ones involving selling services even to those who do not need them.

Truth is, until you have been a parent, until you have walked the floor seemingly endlessly with a baby suffering from croup; when you have stayed up late helping an adolescent study for hours a subject you yourself haven't studied for years (Latin comes to mind), when you rush out late to buy that one item your child forget to mention was due tomorrow for a school project or when you scrimp and count those pennies so that your child can get a new pair of shoes.

And when you wash away their tears from live's little disappointments understanding that to them those disappointments are paramount; and when you spend years encouraging them to be strong, to stand on their own two feet, to make their own way, when you do all of these things and in a moment, as trapped has said, it is all taken away but the social worker.

This is not America. Social workers who think they are doctors and United States Supreme Court Justices-
this is not America.

trappedinwreakage
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:56 am
Location: NY State

Postby trappedinwreakage » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:50 pm

Yep

Then we arent even examining who the groups are that have lobbied for all these laws our various governmental bodies have voted into law. Who, where and how the statistics were evaluated to sway such bills into passing.

Origionally this countries government was set up so that a relatively small majority could not impose their views on the entire country. I highly doubt the majority of parents raise their children with the "take a timeout" method of discipline only. There comes a point in many parents enlistment where they have had enough and feel its time to get the point across, barring any success with conventional methods. Then of course nearly every teenager will tell anyone "My parents are mean to me". I know the few spankings I received during my tenure at learning to live were enough to convince me I wouldnt try that again.

Thanks Mom and Dad for being mean to me, you made me a man. Rest in peace, I too will... one day.

Socialworker
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:50 pm

Postby Socialworker » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:38 pm

I don't think the original movement is the problem. The original laws of child abuse were created when a child was severely abused, beaten, and neglect almost to death. What created the movement for child abuse laws was that no one could be charged in those crimes, and by the law at the time, dogs had more protection under the law. It wasn't meant to strike down spanking as a form of punishment.

Honestly, I was spanked, my spouse was spanked, and we will spank our children when the need arises. It's supposed to be legal to do so. Where the line is SUPPOSED to be drawn is if there is bruising left on the child. The problem is that it's too vague, and has turned into "if you spank, it's abuse." I've never been a big fan of the "time out only" movement.

There are so many real abuse cases, that the "radar" has become WAAAAAAY too sensitive. A parent spanks their child in Kmart and has CPS called because someone thinks it's mean. It doesn't matter that the child was, let's say putting their finger in a light socket after being told 10 times not to do it. So then, a parent who was doing nothing illegal now has to deal with CPS. If you're lucky you'll get someone who understands that spanking is not abuse. If you're not, you'll get someone who would have called just like the person in Kmart did, and will create problems where there are none.

Realistically, the whole system can't be thrown out the window. What needs to happen are a few things.
1, legislatures need to make concrete laws that aren't up to interpretation by case workers. That's what causes parents who ARE abusers to get through the cracks, and parents who AREN'T get stuck.

2, There may be a need to force out certain case workers. People who are so burned out they see everyone as a case needing work, people who can't objectively look at the system and see what changes need to be made, and people who want nothing more than to punch a time card and not dig into cases to find out the truth should be ousted.

3, There needs to be a LOT of change in the regulation. There are many states that don't require case workers to be a licensed ANYTHING, much less a licensed social worker who has had training. Even if it's just a general base of what to look for. There are other states that don't even require a high school diploma as long as you've worked there long enough.

4, There needs to be a real way to file appeals and complaints. You can do that now through licensing boards and such, but in a lot of cases, it doesn't go far because the case worker will say its a "revenge" complaint and they are backed by union or other employer paid lawyers, so they can fight practically forever if they have good enough legal benefits.

5, There needs to be a government backed (because they have the funds) movement to tell people their rights. Things like you have the right to refuse entry, you have the right to lodge complaints and the information how you can do it. Part of the problem is that people don't know what rights they have until AFTER they're in the system, and they've already given up things they had the right to keep.


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