very confused asking advice from anyone who been there

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cbrown2012
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:32 pm

very confused asking advice from anyone who been there

Postby cbrown2012 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:58 am

My question is what can we do if lawyer is not helping? Current he has dropped himself as my husbands council and said i could do the same. We have not signef anything as we want to plead not guilty. Yet my lawyer told me go ahead and sign the service plan and i said i didnt want to plead guilty not to mention whem you sign one complete it cps cps has freedom to changr it keep adding things preventing us from kids returning. Being i have visits in writing and they changed their mind about that. When i do tell my lawyer what i expect he doesnt like it. How can i get him to hear me or request a new one? Funny thing wks ago he was for us fighting charges then he met with them at last coury date and this changed. Can i file a motion myself to request visits from a judge? How do i do that? What can i do to prepare for a trial? I really hate pleading guilty when i dont feel like i am. I need some direction please and thank you

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Eljay
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: very confused asking advice from anyone who been there

Postby Eljay » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:31 am

cbrown2012 wrote:My question is what can we do if lawyer is not helping?


Multiple options:
- Hire a private attorney who will be motivated to work for you.
- Write a letter to your attorney modeled after this one (do NOT copy it), clearly stating your expectations: http://fightcps.com/2007/08/20/make-you ... k-for-you/
- Ask for a different atty
- Ask this atty to bring in a supervising/managing/more experienced atty to aid in your case
- File a complaint with the court/judge, managing law firm and state bar for "ineffective assistance of legal counsel"
- Fire him altogether and represent yourself (pro se)

Current he has dropped himself as my husbands council and said i could do the same.


Out here in CA it is standard operating procedure for each person to have their own atty/representation. I find it odd that you ever had the same one as you'd almost always have different allegations against you, and possibly different case plans, and CPS *LOVES* to pit one parent against the other, often insisting on divorce in order for the non-offending parent to regain custody.

We have not signef anything as we want to plead not guilty. Yet my lawyer told me go ahead and sign the service plan and i said i didnt want to plead guilty


Be careful about how you phrase things.... you don't "plead guilty" in civil court/CPS court. There are no criminal charges being levied against you. So, if you say, "I don't want to sign this because I don't want to plead guilty," then your lawyer could honestly say, "you are NOT pleading guilty if you sign this." He would be technically right so don't let yourself be duped. In civil court, they usually refer to it as "stipulating" to the allegations made on behalf of the caseworker/CPS.

Here's my take.... if you agree to the service plan, you get the service plan and maybe get your kids back in 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, or never. If you DO NOT sign the service plan and fight it in court, even if you lose at trial, the consequence is that you have to sign the service plan... and you get the service plan and maybe get your kids back in 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, or never. Same thing. They will threaten you that if you "lose" you'll probably never see your kids, but that is because they are lazy and just want you to give in. Yes, it means weeks or months of going to court, but IF YOU DID NOT ABUSE OR NEGLECT YOUR KIDS then you should absolutely fight the good fight. Parents who DO abuse/neglect their kids just sign the plan and go along with the services... you should differentiate yourself from the real abusers by not agreeing with anything CPS says that is not 100% true and necessary treatment.

not to mention whem you sign one complete it cps cps has freedom to changr it keep adding things preventing us from kids returning. Being i have visits in writing and they changed their mind about that.


That is why you should ask for everything you want from the courts. Start at the top... I want my kids home and CPS out of my life. If that can't happen, I want my kids home while we complete classes, etc. because we are NOT a danger to our kids. Next, I want my kids at MY home, living with grandma, aunt, nanny, whatever and for parents to have unlimited UNSUPERVISED visitation, if not, then supervised. Also, my personal advice is to call CPS and negotiate down the proposed service plan as much as you can... lead them to believe that you might be willing to go along with it if they take of this/that requirement or recommendation, allow unsupervised visits, promise the kids will be home in a short amount of time, strike any "presumptive" statements from the wording. For example, if it says, "father will take domestic violence class for 16 sessions over 8 weeks to learn how to control his anger" ... ask them for "father will take 4 weeks of anger management class to learn how to defuse volatile situations." Get them to whittle down/change as much as you can, ask them to give you a copy of this proposed management plan (and each reduced revision along the way) and THEN you refuse to sign it (say you'll go over it with your lawyer and get back to them). You still go to court, take it to trial, and they present to the judge the watered down case plan while saying to the judge, "see, they don't even consider our situation risky since they took out all of these other recommendations. Judge, we still think this is excessive and they are being unreasonable... what we know our family needs to be healthy is __________." This will especially make them look bad if they present the old, excessive case plan to the court, not the watered down one YOU have in hand.

When i do tell my lawyer what i expect he doesnt like it. How can i get him to hear me or request a new one? Funny thing wks ago he was for us fighting charges then he met with them at last coury date and this changed.


If memory serves, the lawyer/law firm will get about $700 for representing you in court. Does he want to spend 15 minutes on your case or 15 days???? Unless you're really, really bad at math, you can answer that one yourself. There is no motivation there for court-appointed lawyers to do any extra work. Be calm and confident, let him know you in no way plan on sacrificing your children to the CP$ gods by agreeing with them. The other lawyers & judge (CPS atty, GAL, other parent attys, etc.) are your lawyer's co-workers, in a sense. He doesn't want to go pissing everybody off. However, you are SOOOOOOOO not concerned with his rapport with the other attorneys... you are concerned with your family. Demand that he has the same interests at heart.

Can i file a motion myself to request visits from a judge? How do i do that? What can i do to prepare for a trial? I really hate pleading guilty when i dont feel like i am. I need some direction please and thank you


The definition of having an attorney represent you in court is that he/she IS your representative. Everything is supposed to go through the atty and they would be the one to file papers for you. If he/she is completely useless and/or unwilling to represent YOUR interests then you're going to have to grab the reins and drive your case... fire him, bring in help, hire your own, represent yourself, complain, etc. You don't want to completely piss him off until you're sure that he's not going to work for you at all... *AND* you should absolutely document his refusals by writing down what he says. "I want you to file a motion to dismiss my case." "oh, that never works... just sign here" and document this as part of your complaint to the above mentioned parties. You can also be very, very clear to him... "so, are you saying that you REFUSE to represent me in this case by not filing to dismiss this case based on lack of jurisdiction, which you've already confirmed? I hope you know that if you refuse to represent me, I intend on filing complaints with the appropriate authorities." No need to surprise him! Maybe you'll get him to work for you! It's much easier to get a lawyer to do the work for you... they are *doctors* of law and practicing without the education is really, really hard.

You can write a motion to do pretty much anything, like "Motion to Compel Barack Obama to Wear Pink Shoes on Tuesdays" as long as you follow the legal format. You want a "Motion Increase and Enforce Parental Visitation" or something like that. A sample motion is here... well this is in VA:

http://www.courts.state.va.us/forms/district/dc371.pdf
Maybe browse here: viewforum.php?f=82

To help you out, please let us know what state are you in and what are the allegations against you?
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

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