New Investigation Opening

[carlysmama]

I had a cps investigation opened last year for neglect that was unfounded on my older 3 children when a neighbor called twice and said that my kids were playing in the street and never supervised and out all hours of the night, etc. I sweated out the 60 days until it was closed. I have had a few close calls with cps since then, once being with a mad daycare mom whose kid I used to watch and fired and she called cps but they never came. I have no idea what bs she even could've thought to make up but it was nothing regardless.

Well fast forward to today...about 1 year later exactly. I had a plumber here for a toilet being fixed and I was busy with him and he was going back and forth out the door and he left it opened and my 2.5 year old son and 17 month old daughter wandered out. I searched the house twice for them and then went outside and started searching and called 911, frantic. I cannot even describe to you the feeling of panic that was inside of me. Well I see a police car at the top of the corner of my street. Didn't even occur to me why. I just ran up to the oficer and started screaming help find my babies. My babies were missing. She told me she knew exactly where they were. Showed me to a neighbor's house around the corner, about 1.5 blocks away, still on my street. I live in a townhouse development. I was just so grateful to have my babies back I was losing it, crying and shaking and hugging my kids. The officers walked back to my house with me and asked how long I had been searching. I said about 5 mins. They seemed like they thought that was about right. IDK. It may have been longer honestly. I wasn't counting time. They asked for my id and phone number, which I readily gave them. I didn't even think about it. The officers were both women and very nice. I was just so grateful to have my kids back I wasn't even thinking of the situation and what had occured. Now I'm worried because my friends have told me cops are a mandated reporter for CPS and that I can expect a visit anytime now. I have cleaned my house spotless and I know what to look for. But being this is my 2nd instance with cps I'm terrified. I called a therapist I've dealt with, who works with CPS sometimes and she said they could take my kids. Didn't sugarcoat it. I'm terrified now. This happened this afternoon. Its now 8 pm. If they thought my children were in immediate danger they would have taken them or not given them back right? I'm infuriated at this neighbor. She knew me I am sure. I'm sure she knew where I lived and I believe she saw my children and grabbed them and took them to her house. It was way too far to wander on their own. I'm not sure what to expect. I think the neighbor did this to be a nosey you know what or out of malice because several weeks ago my older kids were playing and the ice cream truck came and they threw their scooters down in the street and ran for the truck and she grabbed their scooters, picked them up, and told my kids she was taking them until I came for them. I went to her house and she wouldn't answer and then I called the police, thinking she was stealing my proprety. She saw the police pull up and saw me and gave me the scooters and said she didn't want anymore trouble. I am sure she knows my kids. She seems like that kind of nosy neighbor. What do I do now?

[Eljay]

Actually, mandated reports have to report an incident to CPS *OR* the police/sheriff. So, the police do not HAVE to report to CPS, but if the feel it is warranted, they will.

What to do now? Watch your kids like hawks. Use the Eljay script (LOL... giving myself credit) if they show up, except that you'll need to address YOUR specific issues.

If/when they come, be pleasant & polite, but firm and confident. They need to see that you are in control of yourself, your home & your family. Your initial exchange should be something like this:


CW: I'm here from CPS to investigate a report we received at CPS regarding your children.
You: Please wait here.... [run and get pad of paper & video recorder]
You (on your front porch): What is the allegation? Please speak slowly, I'm going to write this down in case my video recording fails.
CW: We received report that your home was filthy and unsafe for children.
You: Which rooms were allegedly messy?
CW: The report didn't say.
You: Are there any other allegations?
CW: We were told that you had no food in the home.
You: Are there any other allegations?
CW: No.
You: Please wait here... I will take a photo and bring you the evidence you need to close your report.
CW: I need to come and inspect.
You: Do you have a warrant?
CW: No.
You: Then I will preserve my 4th amendment right against illegal search & seizure and not allow you in. You can wait right here on the porch.
....
You: Here is a picture of the kitchen, living room, bathroom & child's room. Here is a picture of the stocked refrigerator & food pantry.
CW: I need to see a picture of your bedroom & basement.
You: Those are not rooms that the children are allowed in and not part of your investigation, which concerns only the children and, thus, the rooms they are allowed into.
CW: Grrrrrr.... well, I have to do a complete investigation and ask you more questions.
You: I've given you everything needed to close your investigation based on the allegations you provided.
CW: Do you take drugs?
You: This has nothing to do with the allegations you are investigating. You have enough information to close your case.
CW: Are you employed or on public assistance?
You: This has nothing to do with the allegations you are investigating. You have enough information to close your case.
CW: Has your child missed any school this week?
You: This has nothing to do with the allegations you are investigating. You have enough information to close your case.
CW: We need to determine whether your child is healthy. When did he last see a dentist?
You: This has nothing to do with the allegations you are investigating. You have enough information to close your case.
CW: Where is your husband and how much alcohol does he drink?
You: This has nothing to do with the allegations you are investigating. You have enough information to close your case.
CW: If you don't tell me, I'll take you to court.
You: This has nothing to do with the allegations you are investigating. You have enough information to close your case.

Do this all with a smile, calm and confident. Again, write down EVERYTHING (write down what you're going to say BEFORE you say it, then read it to his/her) while you're recording it. If you child needs your attention during this process, tell them that your child needs you and would they please wait on the porch while to tended to his/her needs. Shut door in face and do what you have to do, then come back when you're available.

[carlysmama]

But my allegations are of child neglect because they re running around outside. Not a filty house or anything. I let them in last time and answered their questions and they interviewed my kids. I'm sure they'll expect the same this time. If I don't they may assume I'm guilty and take my kids then rig?

[monkette31]

Can you go stay with friends for a few days JUST SO YOU CAN RELAX? I think now would be the time if you could, sounds like you might be having an investigation being opened on you.

[carlysmama]

Unfortunately no I have no one to go stay with. What makes you think it's absolutely for sure that an investigation will be opened? Im pretty sure there will be but not absolutely. Why do you seem certain thanks.

[monkette31]

Well, I was thinking about the two women cops and thinking, they know what the hell is up and maybe they made a "call" NOT to report anything. This would be the best thing I think and then you won't hear from ANYONE!

..then I thought about it and thought I can't see two cops putting themselves on the line and will write off any report, if required or mandated as something they have to do...hopefully, they can forget things...

I am so sorry if I scared you, I just get pretty scared for people sometimes.

[monkette31]

What state are you in? Do you know what the cps procedures are in your area? Out here we have some reports that have to be responded to in 24 hours, other types, different.... perhaps you can figure out their time frames according to their policies. I had to look up Illinois a few months ago so I could follow as they closed the case (in closable case situation) in 14 days, no charges...

[Eljay]

But my allegations are of child neglect because they re running around outside. Not a filty house or anything. I let them in last time and answered their questions and they interviewed my kids. I'm sure they'll expect the same this time. If I don't they may assume I'm guilty and take my kids then rig?

As for running around outside, I hope you do realize that children that young are not capable of ensuring their own safety. Blaming the neighbor for her actions is just a deflection... what if the children had wandered into a pond and drowned? Who would you blame then? They could have wandered into traffic, into the hands of a pedophile, or the hands of a brutal murderer.

Here's the problem though.... when CPS hears of something like this happening, they go crazy, claiming that the parent(s) is completely incapable of raising children and they kidnap them an force them into their services. Children wander... it happens. It happens ALL THE TIME and 99.999999999% of the time the children are returned safely. You didn't INTENTIONALLY allow them to escape the house. They didn't escape while you were getting high or passed out drunk. So, it's just a matter of how batcrap crazy the caseworker is (if they come out at all) ***AND*** how much additional ammunition YOU give them. Here's the hint... don't give them ANY!!!! That is what the script is for... find out exactly what they are there to investigate and hold them to that and ONLY that! They may insinuate that you were drunk or playing video games instead of watching your children, but you just need to tell them what the circumstances were for that situation and don't be baited into responding to anything else. You were temporarily distracted by the presence of the plumber, or whatever the case was, the kids slipped away through the door left open by the plumber, you called for help right away, tracked them down and all is well. You're going to get a baby gate or velcro slippers to ensure it never happens again, but kids walk. Period.

[carlysmama]

Thank you all. I live in MD. I believe they have 72 hrs to respond here. And I understand what you're saying. regarding the police. They're covering themselves. I'm not blaming anyone but myself. It's my own fault. I know anything could've happened to them. We live near a main street. However I just found it really coincidental that woman found them and took them. I'm installing safety locks and gates TODAY! Not waiting around for cps. I want to show them I'm prepared.

[fatherofthree]

Thank you all. I live in MD. I believe they have 72 hrs to respond here. And I understand what you're saying. regarding the police. They're covering themselves. I'm not blaming anyone but myself. It's my own fault. I know anything could've happened to them. We live near a main street. However I just found it really coincidental that woman found them and took them. I'm installing safety locks and gates TODAY! Not waiting around for cps. I want to show them I'm prepared.

Having been a 1st responder to these incidents, I know kids cans get out. I also know most of the time nothing bad happens. However, I have also seen young children get out unsupervised and drown, or get hit by cars. That is not reading about it in the newspaper, but actually responding and seeing it first hand. If I received a call of a found toddler, and there was history in our police computer of an incident the year before, I would most definitely make a child welfare referral. I am glad to see you are taking appropriate measures on your own to ensure this won't happen again. In reality that is all the system should be asking of any parent in this predicament.

[carlysmama]

so basically what you're saying fo3 is that I have a real chance of cps coming and them taking my children being that this is now my possibly 2nd referral? The first was was closed unfounded. It wasn't even a real complaint. It was false allegations. They were never able to prove anything.

[Beatthescammers]

CPS can show up at anyone's home and they can show up at yours. They cannot take your children without a court order. If they show up to take your kids demand to see the court order and READ IT.

Follow the advice above and don't let them inside unless they have a warrant.

If they show up, ask them to state their allegations. Be firm and tell them when their questions have nothing to do with their allegations.

Write down and record everything they say. If you live in a two party recording state, you must tell them that they are being recorded.

Do NOT chit chat with CPS at your door. Everything you say will be twisted into something negative so say very little to them.

If they state that they are at your door to check on your children's safety, call your kids to the window and let them see that your kids are fine through the window.

If they tell you that they must know if your children are receiving medical care, DON'T SIGN ANY APPROVAL FORMS. Don't make anything easy for CPS. They can still read through your children's physician records, but only if they know the name of your child's physician (if you have private health insurance). Tell them politely that their medical questions have nothing to do with their allegation and you prefer not to sign their medical release form. If your kids' vaccinations have not been kept up to date, get their vaccines caught up quickly. This is a "biggie" for CPS.

If CPS asks about your mental health or medical care, tell them that you are mentally healthy and there are laws to protect health care privacy in the USA. Their question on your medical history is not relevant to their allegations.

If they state that they must check on the cleanliness of your home, tell them to wait there, shut the door, and bring back photos.

If they insist on coming inside your home, tell them that you are an American and they must have a warrant to enter your home in America.

Go buy a safety chain for your door. Take a photo of it with a camera that shows the date. You might need this to prove that you took immediate action to ensure that this never occurs again.

A child on my street escaped and the police were called to help in the search which took half an hour. The police didn't call CPS. I hope you will be this fortunate.

Train your children before they go to kindergarten to NEVER talk to the CPS monster who might show up at school. CPS can show up on public property and interrogate your children without your approval, so train your children early to "just say no to CPS".

[Eljay]

CPS can show up at anyone's home and they can show up at yours. They cannot take your children without a court order. If they show up to take your kids demand to see the court order and READ IT.

They SHOULD NOT take your children without a court order, but they sometimes do. They are allowed to take them when the child is in IMMINENT RISK of harm, i.e. you've got a gun to their head.

[carlysmama]

thank you. i hope i amfortunate too but somehow i doubt it:( I just see them showing up. And why isn't a lock and dead bolt enough? My son cannot open these. I have to get lanlord permission for a chain install. I've already put child proof stuff around the rest of the house. My son went out an opened door. He cannot opened a LOCKED door. Huge difference.

[Homeschoolmom7]

Carlysmama, your situation is eerily similar to mine...like scary similar! Mine involved my 3 middle kids escaping while my husband and I were asleep. We immediately installed door alarms, a new deadbolt on our sliding door and a 3rd gate. Now we wait to see if this will suffice...Please read my post if you're wondering what may happen next. I must warn you...I don't even know the end result to this one.

[Eljay]

Worst child escape consequences I've seen on this site so far is this case:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12169

[carlysmama]

They havent come yet but I'm so afraid I haven't even got a chance. That story in VA scares me. It's right next to me. I'm in MD. If you see my other thread, my frickin therapist, whom I now fired, called yesterday. She didn't HAVE to report. It was heresay what she heard. I don't even know what she's told CPS. She said she made it sound like it was an accident. I'm terrified. My oldest has threatened to run away. I have NO one willing to step in and take my kids. My parents cannot. They can't handle 5 kids and live in an over 55 community. My youngest daughter, 17 months, is so attached to me. We cosleep. She'd literally die without me. My 2.5 year old has speech delays. I don't know what to do. I've read up on everything here. But cps are the BIGGEST of all bullies. I know how the work. And unfortunately I believe the damn therapist may have sent me to the cleaners and told them all about my mental health history and that I have prescription drugs-topamax and prozac and have issues with my oldest dd(8) and that I'm overwhelmed as a single parent and God knows what else. She could have ruined me.

[Eljay]

They havent come yet but I'm so afraid I haven't even got a chance. That story in VA scares me. It's right next to me. I'm in MD. If you see my other thread, my frickin therapist, whom I now fired, called yesterday. She didn't HAVE to report. It was heresay what she heard. I don't even know what she's told CPS. She said she made it sound like it was an accident. I'm terrified. My oldest has threatened to run away. I have NO one willing to step in and take my kids. My parents cannot. They can't handle 5 kids and live in an over 55 community. My youngest daughter, 17 months, is so attached to me. We cosleep. She'd literally die without me. My 2.5 year old has speech delays. I don't know what to do. I've read up on everything here. But cps are the BIGGEST of all bullies. I know how the work. And unfortunately I believe the damn therapist may have sent me to the cleaners and told them all about my mental health history and that I have prescription drugs-topamax and prozac and have issues with my oldest dd(8) and that I'm overwhelmed as a single parent and God knows what else. She could have ruined me.

Please quit blaming everybody else. If you didn't want her reporting, you should not have said anything to her. Don't blame the cops, the neighbors, the kids or anybody else. Unless someone dragged your kids out in the street and let them go, there is really no blame to be had here and you're just creating a "victim mentality" for yourself and/or your kids. What happened here is a minor childhood mishap. They had never escaped your otherwise secure home prior to this, circumstances were different because of the plumber, you're addressing it with more hardware (right?????).

You MUST develop your parental confidence to know that crap like this is going to happen, you are going to learn from it, grow from it, and IMPROVE your lives with a little more knowledge and safety. One of the best things you can do when CPS gets there is show them that you are a competent mom who took care of the situation. If you blame everyone else, then that does NOT fix the problem and it can happen again.

I just got back from a trip to the police station with my 14 yr old son to register his new bicycle. He's not all that comfortable riding on the streets as we're in suburban LA and you're really risking your life by getting on a bike, even in mild traffic. So, I'm in the truck, he's on his bike riding behind me. He starts off fine, riding in the street, especially where there are no sidewalks. Then we get to an area where there are sidewalks (where he's NOT supposed to ride) and he starts riding on the sidewalk. I stop, I tell him he cannot ride on the sidewalk. Get on the street, ride next to or behind me. Then I say, "we are going to roll up to this stop sign (300 ft ahead), come to a stop, then roll forward so that we can see traffic clearly, you at the front so you can see past the truck." We are on a little cross-street to a fairly busy main street, where the cross traffic has no stop. He stops, rolls forward, and then TAKES OFF IN FRONT OF TRAFFIC!!!! Now, if that kindly gentleman had not slowed down, I would have been witness to my son being splattered right in front of me. Now, he's 14, but he has ADD and is not comfy on the bike.... but COME ON!!!!!!! I have ridden my bike with him, he's driven golf carts & ATVs all over the place so he's not unaware of the concept of two vehicles not occupying the same space at the same time, but what the hell was he thinking??!?!?!?? Then, two blocks later, he's ON THE FRIGGEN SIDEWALK AGAIN!!!!!!!

It took all I had not to whack him when we got to the PD. Yeesh. So, the moral is, even when they are of an age where they can completely comprehend a direct command, laws of physical matter, rules, etc. they STILL mess up! It happens... you learn how to manage it and move on. I've learned today that he needs more experience following me around on a bike. He may die in the process (perhaps at my hands) but all I can do is work to fix it.

[treytrey1]

When our case started my husband blamed everyone else for the troubles we had. I can say
we were lied to about many things, but I always excepted blame on the part I played to put
us in the situation we were in. What made me really angry is they said the therapist we were
using in the beginning was fine, but he never had anything negitive to say. They asked us to see
someone else, so we saw both. The new therapist said we never excepted our part in what happened
with our kids. We had excepted over and over, but she tried to say I was telling her what she wanted to hear.
Needless to say we knew reunifacation wasnt happening and we fired her.
Eljays right, just except your part in what happened, I believe you said you now have gates installed.
Hopefully you got to this before Cps can cause any more havic to you. In our case it was too late, because
we hadnt found this site yet.

[carlysmama]

Thank you I get what you're saying makes sense cps came to my door this morning I didn't answer I had just returned from dropping my kids at camp and saw the social worker an panicked she left her business card and I called she wants me to come in tomorrow at 10:30 with my babies so she can see they are find and take my statement I am terrified what can I expect going to her office my friend said she would go with me is it a good sign she says we can meet at her office does that mean they'll ask questions and close the case

[family_man]

It's far too early in the game to tell what will happen. Best case: The CW will see nothing is wrong and promise to close the case. Worst case: She takes your babies into custody on the spot (unlikely but possible). It's good that you have a friend coming along as a witness. When something like this happened to my family, I had a family law attorney accompany me. The results were favorable, but it probably was overkill.

Just answer the questions, volunteering nothing. Listen to what she says about your report, and the concerns she has about your family. Clarify any errors in the report. Tell her about the steps you have taken to babyproof your home. Make an appointment for her to see your home, if she needs to see it, after you have a chance to clean it up. Bring pictures of your home. If she asks you if there's anything she can do for your family, thank her for her offer, but tell her it might be best to direct her services to families that really need her help.