Have you ever heard of a case like this one? Help, please!

Are you going through an investigation now? Tell your story and get feedback here.

Moderators: family_man, LindaJM

righteousbabe
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Texas

Have you ever heard of a case like this one? Help, please!

Postby righteousbabe » Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:27 am

:cry:

I am SO tired. This is the situation, and I appreciate ANY and all input, and the faster the better of course!!

Here's a list of people involved so this won't get too confusing:

C -- My girlfriend/partner (same sex partner) of 2 years, and the mother of the child who has been taken

S - Me, closest description would be "step-mom" or "2nd mom" to this child

K -- The child, a girl, age 2.5

L -- Child's father

D1 - Child's father's eldest adult daughter (taken child's half-sister)
D2- Child's father's adult stepdaughter (taken child's stepsister)

CW (obvious).. caseworker

D- My girlfriend's (C) oldest child, boy, age 12
M- My youngest son, age 7
R- My eldest child, age 13, but he's not in the story

I live with C and together we have a blended family, consisting of her two children (the boy, B, the girl, K) and my two children (D-boy-7 and A-boy-13).

The youngest, C's daughter, has had frequent contact with her father from birth. The birth, simply put, was an intentional/planned conception because both C (a lesbian) and L (child's father) wanted a child and had mutual respect/trust, at leas in the beginning. C had no reason to think he would not be a good father. C was in no position to adopt or have scientific help in having another child... and this was what they mutually decided to do. As such, aside from when she was a very young infant, they have both shared physical custody pretty much equally and amicably.

Custody is court ordered and was issued at the time that child support was issued. It specifies the standard Texas visitation, every other weekend kind of thing, but in reality C has been much more liberal and there have never been any fights or issues over this.

So, it was routine for K (the little one) to be "back and forth" as needed. We all live in the same town and it was common for K to go to the other parent instead of childcare.. so if one parent needed a bit more time, the other one would step in. For example, when school was in session and I had a work overload and C needed to take some temp/contract work, she left K with the dad, but at no time was it ever longer than 2 weeks, and most often much less than that.

K never had any problem transitioning back and forth.. there were no strangers involved, and she was with mom or dad always.

I'm sorry, I know this is already getting long.. but it's best if I get it all posted to avoid having to clarify later.

I have been around this child (K) from the time she was 4 months old, when I met her mother. So, you can probably imagine the bond that is there. My children are bonded to her as well and think of her and refer to her as their baby sister.

Over a year ago, we became involved with CPS due to a "self report". There was an incident between my youngest son (then 5) and C's older child (then 10, but he is developmentally delayed somewhat) towards mine. I won't get into details but can clarify in a PM if you need to know. We immediately separated and C lived with her mother for about four months. We also immediately (as in that week) sought counseling for both children, and were fully aware that doing so would alert CPS and that there would be an investigation. We did it anyway, doing what we felt we MUST for our children.

We did everything by the book, C did not move back into the home with her child until CPS authorized it, we did the constant home visits, the in-home counseling, the individual counseling, you name it. Oh, and let's not forget the CONSTANT supervision. Those two children will never be alone together, EVER. After about 4 months, CPS approved us living together and their only recommendation at the end of the year long investigation was that we continue counseling (duh) and maintain high levels of supervision. (double duh!) Okie doke.

During the final phase of THAT investigation, an ex-friend that we were having a minor "feud" with over money they owed us decided to do the classy and original thing and file a bogus CPS complaint against us. They did this about a week before they moved out of the apartment upstairs from us. The allegations were SO ridiculous that I laughed out loud when I heard them.. and I knew exactly who had done it. The new caseworker actually agreed with me and dismissed that case within a week, also going on statements by the other caseworker (who had been in our home off and on for a year) and the counselor (same thing).

So, there's one "unfounded' report on record. We had no idea we could have had that expunged. Live and learn. Strike one.

C has had 2 other blatantly FALSE allegations levied against her since I've met her.. and both were dismissed immediately. Strike 2, 3.

She had 1 other BEFORE we met. Strike 4, and the only "real" one makes 5.

NONE of these went beyond a second visit aside from the year long one. So there are 2 on my "record" as well, but only one "justified".

She never knew to have them expunged. Nor did I. Perhaps it would have saved us from what we're dealing with now.
Two of these false allegations came from the same person who has slandered her most recently. Surprise surprise.

Okay, so here's the CURRENT situation:

A little over 2 months ago, K (again, the little one) was with her dad for a visit. Unbeknownst to us, Dad had allowed his adult daughter (D1) and her two kids to move in, as she was fleeing her abusive husband. Her husband is more than a little NUTS and he decided he'd get back at her for leaving him, by calling CPS and telling them that she was a druggie. So, of course they come to investigate, and make her take a pee test, and she fails (she's an occasional pot smoker). While they are at it, they make K's dad take a pee test too.. he passes.

But (and again, we had NO idea this was happening), there is also another adult living there... the stepdaughter (D2) and HER two kids. Oh, and L's wife (the dad of the 2.5 yo) lives there too, of course. So we have 4 adults and 5 kids living in a 2 bedroom house. CPS doesn't like this one bit. They start questioning everyone. D1 and D2 are on the defensive, and in general don't like C in the first place OR the fact that C and their father/stepfather had a baby with her at "his age" (he is around 50) and they decide to tell CPS that K has been there for FIVE MONTHS and that C dropped her off with "no intent to return, no contact".

Absolute utter BS.

CPS discovers that L has been leaving K with his wife, who is older than him and in poor health (D1 and D2 tell them this) and then CPS worker starts asking around and interviewing neighbors who say that D1 is often there, outside, on the phone with all five kids running around the yard but isn't adequately watching the youngest (K).

So on THIS, they take K out of the home. L convinces them to take her to his sister. He SAYS he first asked them to take her to C, her MOTHER, but that CPS refused because she has a "past history" with CPS. I still don't know if that is true or not.

Meanwhile, L calls C up to tell her what happened, but tells her only the part about his daughter failing the drug test, and says that THAT is the only reason K was removed.

He also tells C that CPS says that she cannot visit during the investigation period, which will last 45 days. She argues but he convinces her that if she tries to visit, they will take K out of relative care and put her in foster care. He reassures her that he will take care of all this and that all will be fine if she just does what he's suggesting.

Now, anyone who has dealt with CPS before will understand the fear that causes one to act against their better judgement, I hope. C and I both are terrified, but at this point we're thinking that if we can all survive the 45 days, it's best to not "make waves" and she will be returned.

Meanwhile C tries calling up our old CW to see if she can find anything out. She was a fairly decent woman.. we figure it's worth a shot. They have been playing phone tag for nearly two months. C was never able to get anything other than her voice mail. In addition, she's tried and tried to get the full name of the caseworker. L has been vague.. CPS has been useless in helping her. They gave her the runaround.

The 45 days passed, and of course C immediately called L to find out when K was coming home. He informs her that she's not coming home yet, as he has to do parenting classes before they'll let her. A few days later she calls him again.. same thing. He is not giving her much information.

I should point out that at NO time has CPS contacted C, by phone, mail, or otherwise, and since our other case was closed out THIS YEAR, they have ALL info on file.

At this point, what was "fishy" becomes just unbearably ODD and C demands the CW name. L gives her the first name.

Meanwhile, C & I start thinking "screw this", we've got the court order in hand (spelling out custody and primary conservatorship or whatever it's called) and we decide we're just going to go GET K and bring her home. So, we call up the aunt to find out when she will be home, under the guise of coming to visit. She tells us what L told us.. we can't visit until CPS says it's okay. C calls CPS again and demands that they find every CW with the first name of XXXX until they get the right one. Finally she gets that CW's secretary and leaves a message.

CW calls back that same day (that's a 1st huh?) and the FIRST words out of her mouth were "So why haven't you made contact until now?" :shock:

Un-freakin-believable. It is at THIS point that C discovers that the CW has been told that K was left there for "five months" with no contact. CW wants C to come in to discuss things further.

Meanwhile, C calls L and tells him that she doesn't know who told the CW this BS but he'd better call and straighten it up pronto, reminding him that HE doesn't have K and neither does she and if she loses her somehow, they'll both be screwed since he is already having to jump through their hoops. SO, he calls the CW up the next day to make sure she knows that K was NOT there for more than 2 weeks, EVER, and she says okay, but I won't consider any new info until I meet with C in person.

That meeting took place this past Thursday. I spent the entire night before reading the Texas family code and printing out relevant sections about how they were required to notify BOTH parents about reports, about removal, etc. C went in with tons of notes and questions and a recorder (that didn't work!! brand new too!) and came out optimistic.. but I am NOT happy. C told her quite clearly that the ONLY reason she'd refrained from contact was due to FEAR that her child would go from relative care to foster care!

CW had us both do drug tests that same day. Fine, whatever. What's done is done in that regard. Assuming it's an honest test, we will not fail or anything.

CW says that she will return K as soon as she does a home visit next week.

C said okay to this (time has not been set yet though, she told her she needed to check with me and check our schedules).

I am outraged though. We still to not know if there was ever a formal "removal" and the only lame excuse C got for them not contacting her was "We were told you were out of the picture..." !! We still have no FORMAL proof that C's parental rights have in ANY way legally been limited by ANY court. There are NO allegations against C or myself yet the CW is clearly using past (false) allegations to justify a "new" investigation of us, the way I see it.

There was ZERO justification in the first place for keeping K away from her mother when all this took place.... and she hasn't provided any. She provided her reasons for the child being taken from DAD, but the reason for keeping her from mom???? We have yet to hear it.

I don't see what is legally keeping us from picking the child up and being done with it. C was never informed of ANYTHING. No hearing, NADA. She has not been provided with any allegations against her. The only thing the CW said was that since some of the previous allegations had to do with a "dirty house" (the UNFOUNDED ones, remember??) that she needed to do at least one home visit, but assured her that K would be home after that.

So why can't she speak with the other CW who was here for a year nonstop to find out if our house was clean for that year?

If you've read this far, you are a saint and I am so grateful. C wants to just do what they say and seems so optimistic that it will all be fine. I am freaking out and imagining the worst. They have trampled all over her rights, exploiting her poverty and ignorance and fears.

She has not seen or spoken to her TWO YEAR OLD daughter in almost two whole months... and without cause or justification, and the CW is pulling this??

I eagerly await your replies. I'm not sleeping well at all lately and C is supposed to call the CW back on monday to let her know when to come do the home visit.

S

inamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:14 am

just some thoughts

Postby inamess » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:33 am

This may not be a very smart thing to do, I am just going to put my thoughts here. Please don't do this based on what I say, but instead wait to see what others (who have much more knowledge than me about this) post

I think IF IT WERE ME, I would try this: (and I'm only brainstorming)

I am thinking call the police - tell them the father was being investigated, sent the child to the aunt for duration of investigation, without notifying the caseworker that you were available. You have legal custody, conservatorship, will gladly show them the court order, nothing has been filed against you, and you want the child in your custody immediately. According to the statutes, the dept. is supposed to notify law enforcement of any report of abuse or neglect, so if you have been reported they should have a record of it. If not, then what's the problem with you getting the child? Just ask them if you have any problem in getting the child from the Aunt if they will be available for assistance and see what they say or recommend. You are only asking for help or advice from them.

If they agree, then call the Aunt and tell her you're coming to get your daughter. If she refuses, tell her the same thing, you have legal custody, nothing has been filed against you, and you have the police to back you up if she doesn't cooperate.

This would, of course, p.o. the caseworker, but that is her problem if she doesn't have anything legally keeping you from your child. She should have done what she was required to do by law and inform you of the investigation and your rights.

Can you get an attorney? That would be advisable, for sure, if it is an option. Otherwise, read everything on this site and learn your rights and be ready for the angry caseworker.

pariann
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:51 am

Postby pariann » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:48 am

I am not sure, but there may be a problem with this scenario. Even though she has legal custody of her daughter, there should have been a court hearing within 72 hours of removal. At that time, the judge would have ordered the child returned home. or detained in the custody of CPS. Once the child is detained, you can't just show up and take the child. Because it's been court ordered for the child to be in a certain place until the judge states otherwise, I'm nearly certain that if you take the little girl on your own or the police assist you without understanding the current orders, CPS may be able to file kidnapping charges against the mother and yourself.

Keep in mind that in two seperate cases that I am aware of, in the public, parents have been charged or threatened with kidnapping even though they still had their children physically with them. Simply because CPS wanted them under their thumb.

Your best bet is to consult an attorney first thing Monday morning, and see if he/she or a representative from his office can be there when the caseworker comes for the home inspection. CPS will have to watch what they say or promise you if there is a legal representative right there.

Get that tape recorder working prior to the home visit and make sure you tape everything that goes on. If you have a video camera you can also set that up and let it run during the visit too. The CW doesn't have to be told that you are video taping in your own home.

Momoffor
Moderator
Posts: 1307
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 pm

Postby Momoffor » Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:22 pm

how much time had passed from the time the self report investigation was closed, until the start of this removal with the father.

What I am trying to get at is if the daughters are claiming that she had been left there for 5 months, would it be possible that during those 5 supposed months, was the self report investigation still on going to be able to prove how bogus those allegations are.

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Postby good dad » Sat Jun 18, 2005 2:24 pm

I agree pari...The police will say it is out of their hands once CPS is involved...

You may have legal custody but the court gave temporary custody to CPS...

FIRST words out of her mouth were "So why haven't you made contact until now?"


They do this to prove to the court that your a unfit parent by not contacting them sooner...If they started out by saying she wasn't brought to you because of "past allegations" you maybe in for a fight to get her back, they will use/twist anything to keep her..I'm sure even your drug test, if negative, will be tainted by saying "they may have waited this long so they could have a clean u/a and we want to have further testing before releasing the child to her"

She should demand seeing the child, at the least, supervised visits and get the ball rolling on being in her life again..>>>She needs positive evidence for when she goes to court and I'm sure she will have to...They will side-step everything to allow more time to go by further "showing she is a unfit parent" ...This is their way of doing business.....

I'll say it again, If she wasn't considered "worthy of being notified" in the beginning of this, they are going to fight to keep her out of your home... :(
*********************
My advice is my opinion and not legal advice
*********************
A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

Michael
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:11 pm
Location: East Central District

CPS Policy and the Law

Postby Michael » Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:01 pm

If CPS removes a child on the next working day there must be a Ex Parte Hearing in the local court. At this hearing CPS gives the judge the reason for the emergency removal. The hudge sets a fourteen day hearing it must be within 14 days.

The district attorney (not CPS) is required to notivy both the mother and father of this hearing.

If you have any previous contact with CPS then you and your childrn are listed in IMPCT (this is the name of the CPS computer system).

Through IMPACT the CPS worker is required to link all identified family.

I do not think that CPS has TMC of your child. I think that the father has done what is called a Safety Plan out of home placement.

The quickest way to find out the legal status is to call the ditrict attorney's office and tell them that **** the name of the CPS worker told you that CPS has custody of your child.

A Safety Plan CANNOT VIOLATE ANY STANDING COURT ORDER unless both parents agree. And custody orders are standing court orders. It soulds like both the father and the CPS worker are in violation of a court order.

You can also contact CPS at 1-800-252-5400 and request to send a I & R to the worker on your child's case requesting that he or she contact you immedicatly.

Program Directors and supervisors hate to see these I & R messages.

Also policy is that it is the responsibility of the CSP worker to locate and contact you not your responsibility to search them out.

righteousbabe
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Texas

thanks everyone, question for Michael

Postby righteousbabe » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:17 pm

thanks for the replies.. i will reply at length soon. right now i have to be somewhere..

Michael, quickie ?... what is an I & R?

TIA

Sheri

Anonymous

Postby Anonymous » Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:53 am

pariann is right there is a 72 hour meeting,and if the judge says that the child goes to the recommended home then that child has to go...you can file a motion for the child to be placed with and inform them that they want to do a background check on you through the NCIC they can do so.They did this to my husband and DFS/CPS took their sweet time doing so,until my husband now (a year ago boyfriend) started hounding them to get it done.

I have no criminal record and have notbeen charfged with anything concerning my children...and still they are refuseing to return them...Their bio father and step mom have BOTH been charged in the past with child abuse and child endangerment and also been charged with drug possession (meth lab) blew up at their home years ago.

And they say i am unfit to continue to care for my children..

Don't give up DO what alot of us have done (BST) Blood Sweat Tears, to get the kids home and CPS hels responsible.

righteousbabe
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Texas

Postby righteousbabe » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:20 am

Momoffor wrote:how much time had passed from the time the self report investigation was closed, until the start of this removal with the father.

What I am trying to get at is if the daughters are claiming that she had been left there for 5 months, would it be possible that during those 5 supposed months, was the self report investigation still on going to be able to prove how bogus those allegations are.


I believe the other case was closed out in February or March. They are claiming she was there for five months and that was 2 months ago so this all started in April... so yes, you are correct, the other worker was HERE at THIS house and saw ALL the children here in feb or march, which knocks out the whole "five month" theory, now doesn't it?

I spoke with a friend of a friend who used to work for CPS and currently teaches upcoming social workers who are headed for working there. She said that it's likely that even if a mistake has been made (which it obviously has), the worker might be trying to avoid ending up with egg on her face. So even though there was no justification for keeping the child from her mom, she is now going to make her actions look justified. Or the investigator, whichever one it is that screwed up here.

So, they're looking at it not like "Ooops! We were wrong, here's your kid" but like "Well if you want to be RE-involved with this daughter that you ABANDONED, here's what you gotta do.." only they're pandering to us in not coming out and saying it like that.

It's just ridiculous.

We were planning on going to the courthouse to have them search for anything that was filed when they took her. This friend of a friend said that we can just call the caseworker and make HER give us the cause number, saving us the search time. My GF is going to do that when she gets home (she's on a job interview right now).

If she can't produce one, then it seems to me that we have every right to go and retrieve the baby, court order in hand.

She warned us though that if we do that, the worker might react by starting a whole new investigation which would then drag out longer than if we just do what she's asking now. She also agreed though that doing what she's asking now might end up not being "enough" and then there is another hoop, then another, and so on.

So again, we're not sure. I guess if we do go and just take her, provided there's no court order saying we cannot, and they DO start another investigation as a result, at least we will have physical custody of the child and if we have to we can then force CPS to do things on the up and up from here on out, with court orders and all?


She said if there IS a cause number, we should be able to use that to go down and request a court appointed attorney. Not exactly sure HOW to do that....

And I still don't know what an I & R is. I don't want to call and not know what I'm talking about. :) Michael?

User avatar
Dazeemay
Posts: 4135
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:07 pm

Postby Dazeemay » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:08 am

You can also contact CPS at 1-800-252-5400 and request to send a I & R to the worker on your child's case requesting that he or she contact you immedicatly


I & R means.......Information and Referral
**********************************
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom

To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).

Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour

"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1

righteousbabe
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Texas

UPDATE, OMG, it just got worse

Postby righteousbabe » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:30 am

I have about five seconds to respond so this will be brief.

My GF talked to the CW today and asked her for a cause number pertaining to the removal of the child. She didn't have one. GF asked why. CW says because she wasn't removed by legal action. The father volunteered the removal to avoid legal action, just as we suspected...

BUT

She then informed my GF that *I* failed my drug test!?!? WTF!?

I about hit the floor. I haven't touched an illegal substance since I was a teen.

She said the test was sky high for methamphetamines. Hilarious. You ever seen a meth user? Chances are they are not 5'8" and 170 pounds!

GF asked, of course, if my OTC sinus pills could cause it and was told no, absolutely not. It would only be explained by a prescription med.

Oh, and my test "looked like I was drinking lots of water to try and flush my system".... duh! I ONLY drink water after my morning coffee.

So, we're racking our brains trying to think of what this could be caused by, and I remember that I took one of my mom's Tylenol 3 pills about 2 weeks ago when my back went out. So we tell the CW this. STUPID, yes, I know that now. she lectures about how you should never take another person's meds, blah blah blah, and says she's going to send this for a referral to investigate why the test was positive.

GF hangs up with her and calls the drug testing lab, after I do some internet searches that show that sudafed-like meds CAN and DO cause false positives for amphetamines. Drug lab says this is possible, and that they were supposed to ask me about ALL meds. They only asked about Prescription ones.

He says to have CW call and he will set her straight.

Now she just called back and says that yes, according to the drug lab people, psuedoephedrine can cause a false positive, but low levels, not high levels. Mine were high.

She's still insisting on the home visit too. We put her off for now.
Not sure what to tell her on that.

Sheri

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Postby good dad » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:44 am

There are a number of over the counter drugs that will "flag" your test as positive on the initial drug screen...This is the first step to a 2 step drug test, then a more sophisticated test must be used to confirm any actual drugs are present

If you just took the initial EMIT test, it is very fightable in court..

HHS and NIDA standards say " A test CANNOT be ruled as positive until a confirmation test is done using the GC/MS testing method, which is highly accurate....

You need to find out if a confirmation test was done on it.....

A "FLAGGED" TEST CANNOT BE RULED POSITIVE
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

Anonymous

Postby Anonymous » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:49 am

Since you mentioned drug test,My kids dad reported to CPS/DFS that he is tired of the people that take the drug tests comming to his work,so he had them take his hair sample from his home.Well,he yold me that after all the drug tests were takin they suddenly dissapeared off the desk of the guy that took them.

And another thing that is funny to me is that at our FST meeting we had CPS/DFS said that just because his wife was pregnant she couldn't have dropped dirty.But,both of them have been found guilty in the past of child abuse and neglect and also drug possesion.His wifes 2 chiildren were removed because of the meth lab they had,no back ground check was done on them,even thou CPS/DFS says there has been.They would have found this.ANd having 10 people living in a 3 bedroom home andchildren sleeping together in the same beds and same rooms,

I am going to find out why CPS/DFS did NOT do a background check on them.

They haven't even done a home study on me yet.

Have they done a home study on you to see if your home is suiteable for the children? If not request one to see about getting the children home with you.

Also file a motion with the court to have a background check done on you through the NCIC to show that you do not have a history of abuse or anything of the sort.

inamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:14 am

testing

Postby inamess » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:59 am

Maybe you can go have a test done on yourself immediately. I don't know how much this costs, but just a suggestion so you could have your own records. Also, if you did a urine test with a strip indicator, I simply don't see how they could claim "sky high" or "low" or any level for that matter. It just gives an indication, and like good dad said, they MUST forward it for further testing.

Hope this helps some.

inamess
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 5:14 am

2 cents

Postby inamess » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:07 am

You ever seen a meth user? Chances are they are not 5'8" and 170 pounds!


Nor can I imagine a meth user being able to keep straight C, S, K, L, D1, D2, CW, D, M, and R without getting very confused or slitting their wrists! lol! just had to say it! sorry!

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Postby good dad » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:14 am

You ever seen a meth user? Chances are they are not 5'8" and 170 pounds!


I have saw more then a few at this weight, my ex' wife for one kept gaining weight even during her darkest hour on it..

Nor can I imagine a meth user being able to keep straight C, S, K, L, D1, D2, CW, D, M, and R without getting very confused or slitting their wrists! lol! just had to say it! sorry!


I had problems following who was who and finally just gave up and read it.... lol

You can do a test on yourself, find a collection center in the phone book ( cost here is $22.00) but meth only stays in your urine for 2-3 days so the worker will say you waited 3 days to give a clean sample.....

Just make sure the Lab is certified by HHS or NIDA, they hold their testing facilities to the highest standards, this goes back to who did the first test they ruled positive....

Labs are like restaurants, they all have to pass standards but we all know of open restaurants we would never eat in

If you were truely clean at the time, make them confirm it with the original sample or demand a hair follicle test, this test is done using the GC/MS test method and is highly accurate....It will quash the claims of the "alleged positive" u/a
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

righteousbabe
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Texas

Re: testing

Postby righteousbabe » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:15 pm

inamess wrote:Maybe you can go have a test done on yourself immediately. I don't know how much this costs, but just a suggestion so you could have your own records. Also, if you did a urine test with a strip indicator, I simply don't see how they could claim "sky high" or "low" or any level for that matter. It just gives an indication, and like good dad said, they MUST forward it for further testing.

Hope this helps some.


Oh, that's another thing that burns me up... the CW is saying that the levels were "very high" and then also in the same breath she said that my urine was "diluted" like I'd been drinking lots of water to try and cover something up. You can't have both 'very high' levels AND dilute urine, can you??? Lying you-know-what.

They didn't do the more thorough 2 part test, and it's making me crazy. The simple "screening" via urine isn't admissable in court yet she is using it to hang me out to dry.

Sheri

righteousbabe
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Texas

Postby righteousbabe » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:22 pm

good dad wrote:
You ever seen a meth user? Chances are they are not 5'8" and 170 pounds!


I have saw more then a few at this weight, my ex' wife for one kept gaining weight even during her darkest hour on it..

Yeah, I know, I shouldn't have generalized like that. Just mad. I remember speed users when I was younger... they were all skinny things.

Nor can I imagine a meth user being able to keep straight C, S, K, L, D1, D2, CW, D, M, and R without getting very confused or slitting their wrists! lol! just had to say it! sorry!



I had problems following who was who and finally just gave up and read it.... lol

LOL at both of you.. and that's the first time I've laughed all week. Thanks! :)



If you were truely clean at the time, make them confirm it with the original sample or demand a hair follicle test, this test is done using the GC/MS test method and is highly accurate....It will quash the claims of the "alleged positive" u/a


This is my hope. I hope they kept some of the sample from that day! I think they are supposed to if it's "positive" but I don't know for sure.

We questioned the lab and they said they only do the single urine "screening" by default. Did I say that already?

After I posted here this afternoon, we called the lab back AGAIN. My GF got someone on the phone who said that whoever the CW spoke with on the phone was WRONG and that we needed to have the CW speak to a doctor on staff there at the lab. Well, then we couldn't get hold of the CW again, so we tried calling the doc ourselves. Spent about three HOURS trying that, with no luck and no callback. I really think the best bet is to push to get them to do the secondary test, but I'd also like to be able to shove some proof in this CW's face about the sudafed thing, since she is claiming it's not possible, and I know she is lying now, after reading all afternoon, about the "high levels", since from all I've learned, they can't tell "high" or "low" with the cheapie test. It's a yes or no thing only.

I think she is LYING to intimidate. GF told her I'd be glad to take another test.. CW said fine, but it couldn't be today. It would need to be "random".

Wonder if a hair follicle or blood test would shut her up?

Sheri

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Postby good dad » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:31 pm

When it is brought up in court, state to the judge that under NIDA standards(National Institute of Drug Abuse, the governments acting body on setting thresholds and testing methods and HHS, Health and Human Services workplace guidlines) that you have never tested positive and in cps reporting a positive test you would like to state that they have just attempted to enter a falsified document into court and you would like them repremanded for this and the document to be excluded or the court will also be held to knowingly accepting a falsified document..

This may piss the judge off, but it will show you know the law on this....

HHS workplace guidlines give the cps worker the 2 part test, this makes it biased as the worker gets one type of drug test with it's checks and balances....You get only the cheapest most unaccurate test that doesn't meet government standards..

I'm not a lawyer but this is the approach I would try..

P.S. ....A hair follicle test goes back 90 days but does not show the most resent 7 days
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

Dan Sullivan
Posts: 1538
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:42 am
Location: Long Island, New York

Postby Dan Sullivan » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:44 pm

I think she is LYING to intimidate. GF told her I'd be glad to take another test.. CW said fine, but it couldn't be today. It would need to be "random."

---------

Random sounds like the CW is planning on waiting a while before the next UA.

Have one done ASAP either by CPS or at your own expense to show that the first analysis was a false positive.

Eat a box of sugar donuts before the next test. The CW will be happy to tell you you've got diabetes.

Dan

Dan Sullivan
Posts: 1538
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:42 am
Location: Long Island, New York

Postby Dan Sullivan » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:48 pm

good dad wrote:When it is brought up in court, state to the judge that under NIDA standards(National Institute of Drug Abuse, the governments acting body on setting thresholds and testing methods and HHS, Health and Human Services workplace guidlines) that you have never tested positive and in cps reporting a positive test you would like to state that they have just attempted to enter a falsified document into court and you would like them repremanded for this and the document to be excluded or the court will also be held to knowingly accepting a falsified document..

This may piss the judge off, but it will show you know the law on this....


It isn't a falsified document.

It's a real document... a UA with a false positive determination.

DAn

righteousbabe
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Texas

Postby righteousbabe » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:46 pm

Dan Sullivan wrote:
good dad wrote:When it is brought up in court, state to the judge that under NIDA standards(National Institute of Drug Abuse, the governments acting body on setting thresholds and testing methods and HHS, Health and Human Services workplace guidlines) that you have never tested positive and in cps reporting a positive test you would like to state that they have just attempted to enter a falsified document into court and you would like them repremanded for this and the document to be excluded or the court will also be held to knowingly accepting a falsified document..

This may piss the judge off, but it will show you know the law on this....


It isn't a falsified document.

It's a real document... a UA with a false positive determination.

DAn


Okay, I'm seriously considering just going and paying for my own test... the concerns are this though:

Since the accusation is amphetamines, don't they leave the system quickly? So aren't they (CPS) likely to say that MY test doesn't prove anything, since I probably just waited until I was clean to re-test? From what I've read it wouldn't take more than a 3-5 days to get a clean UA if I was using speed. Is that right?

The other thing is this: do I go take the test while continuing to take my OTC sudafed as normal? This time I'd be sure to LET THEM KNOW that I was taking it, and when the initial screen showed amphetamines, it would be 'explained'. Assuming they did the 2 part test, they could show how the test from last week was erroneous.

I was concerned that if I stopped taking my sinus meds, a totally clean UA could actually hurt me, since again I'd be subject to the CW saying I just "got clean" to re-test.

I really hope that the lab just kept my original sample because it seems like it would be ideal to make them re-test THAT, which was done on the day the CW ordered the test in the 1st place.

S

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Postby good dad » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:50 pm

I had one like this...The worker wrote on the front of it in big letters...POSITIVE and highlighted it...

When he added his wording to it and used it in recomendations to add to my ex' wifes case plan, psch. eval, chemical assessment and all the paperwork that followed after I stated the "guidelines" to him...I considered all the later documents as "falsified"

I understand what you are saying on the test, but it will show up in more paperwork to come..

Guess I got ahead of myself in the explanation
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Postby good dad » Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:52 pm

Demand a hair follicle test....
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

righteousbabe
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:23 am
Location: Texas

Postby righteousbabe » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:21 pm

good dad wrote:Demand a hair follicle test....


How far back does that show/go WRT speed?

Sheri


Return to “CPS Investigations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest